Creating Arcade Games on Your TS 2068 Book???
8 messages · 2008-01-09 → 2008-01-09 · Yahoo Group era · View archive on archive.org
Participants: M. Emrah Oral, Timex, Philip Kendall, Adam Trionfo
Preserved from the Timex/Sinclair 2068 Yahoo Group (2001–2019), which is no longer online. Text reproduced from the archive.org archive; email addresses masked.
Messages
1. Re: Creating Arcade Games on Your TS 2068 Book
Adam Trionfo · Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:45:
Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey, on Tue 1/08/08 at 7:13 PM, wrote:
>>
many programmings book for C64 that wanted nifty
graphics or sound went to PEEK and POKE
>>
Which is faster than BASIC but slower than true machine language. There was this C64 game that I typed in back in from Compute's Gazette about 1983 called Bee Keeper. Before the game would begin it initialized the graphics. It took about 50 seconds (there was a countdown until it was finished). MANY type-in BASIC games that used PEEKs and POKEs were this way. I want to avoid that at all cost. The good thing about emulators is that I've gone back and played that game... speeding through the initialization by running the emulator very fast.
>>
This book may be a "hybrid" like that, where you have BASIC
for the core "logic" of the game, and PEEK/POKE to perform
some hardware controls and maybe DATA blocks of ML bytecode
>>
This was the ONLY way to use sprites on the C64 without resorting to enhancements (i.e. Simon's BASIC). This was why I liked BASIC 7.0 on the C128 so much.
>>
For micros, assembly is where you want to go eventually,
to really take ownership and
have the ability to make every byte and clock count.
>>
It isn't just that. I just like the idea of understanding what is going on. With BASIC, there is no understanding. It's kinda like magic. With ML you are forced to know the hardware better.
>>
Just be warned: machine code or assembly will permanently
warp your thinking.
>>
Nice. At least you gave me fair warning. Now when my girlfriend asks me why I'm talking in mnemonics I can just stare and nod and say, "Ask Robert."
Adam
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2. Re: [ts2068] Re: Creating Arcade Games on Your TS 2068 Book
Timex · Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:05:
On Jan 9, 2008, at 5:45 AM, Adam Trionfo wrote:
>
> Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey, on Tue 1/08/08 at 7:13 PM, wrote:
>>>
> many programmings book for C64 that wanted nifty
> graphics or sound went to PEEK and POKE
>>>
>
> Which is faster than BASIC but slower than true machine language.
> There was this C64 game that I typed in back in from Compute's
> Gazette about 1983 called Bee Keeper. Before the game would begin
> it initialized the graphics. It took about 50 seconds (there was a
> countdown until it was finished). MANY type-in BASIC games that
> used PEEKs and POKEs were this way. I want to avoid that at all
> cost. The good thing about emulators is that I've gone back and
> played that game... speeding through the initialization by running
> the emulator very fast.
Spectrum don't take long time to poke all memory address in BASIC.
I think that:
10 FOR I=28000 TO 65535
20 POKE I,123
30 NEXT I
don't take more than 10 seconds.
I have typed long programs on my Timex and they run like almost
instantly.
Je
3. Re: [ts2068] Re: Creating Arcade Games on Your TS 2068 Book???
Philip Kendall · Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:29:
On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 12:05:06PM +0000, Johnny Red (Timex) wrote:
>
> Spectrum don't take long time to poke all memory address in BASIC.
> I think that:
> 10 FOR I=28000 TO 65535
> 20 POKE I,123
> 30 NEXT I
>
> don't take more than 10 seconds.
Just filling the screen (16384 to 23295) takes ~50 seconds, so I find
this claim... unlikely.
Cheers,
Phil
--
Philip Kendall <[email]>
http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/
4. Re: [ts2068] Re: Creating Arcade Games on Your TS 2068 Book???
M. Emrah Oral · Wed, 9 Jan 2008 04:50:
Unfortunately I kinda do too, but I may be wrong.
Philip Kendall <[email]> wrote: On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 12:05:06PM +0000, Johnny Red (Timex) wrote:
>
> Spectrum don't take long time to poke all memory address in BASIC.
> I think that:
> 10 FOR I=28000 TO 65535
> 20 POKE I,123
> 30 NEXT I
>
> don't take more than 10 seconds.
Just filling the screen (16384 to 23295) takes ~50 seconds, so I find
this claim... unlikely.
Cheers,
Phil
--
Philip Kendall <[email]>
http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/
---------------------------------
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5. Re: [ts2068] Re: Creating Arcade Games on Your TS 2068 Book???
Timex · Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:58:
I might be wrong.
But I remember that first 16K RAM is slower than 32K upper RAM
because of the screen RAM.
The ULA or the CPU must wait to access the first 16K RAM (I don't
remember how it really works).
Je
On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:50 PM, M. Emrah Oral wrote:
> Unfortunately I kinda do too, but I may be wrong.
>
> Philip Kendall <[email]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 12:05:06PM +0000, Johnny Red (Timex) wrote:
> >
> > Spectrum don't take long time to poke all memory address in BASIC.
> > I think that:
> > 10 FOR I=28000 TO 65535
> > 20 POKE I,123
> > 30 NEXT I
> >
> > don't take more than 10 seconds.
>
> Just filling the screen (16384 to 23295) takes ~50 seconds, so I find
> this claim... unlikely.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Phil
>
> --
> Philip Kendall <[email]>
> http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/
>
>
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
> Search.
6. Re: [ts2068] Re: Creating Arcade Games on Your TS 2068 Book???
M. Emrah Oral · Wed, 9 Jan 2008 05:03:
You are right :)
"Johnny Red (Timex)" <[email]> wrote: I might be wrong.
But I remember that first 16K RAM is slower than 32K upper RAM
because of the screen RAM.
The ULA or the CPU must wait to access the first 16K RAM (I don't
remember how it really works).
Je
On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:50 PM, M. Emrah Oral wrote:
> Unfortunately I kinda do too, but I may be wrong.
>
> Philip Kendall <[email]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 12:05:06PM +0000, Johnny Red (Timex) wrote:
> >
> > Spectrum don't take long time to poke all memory address in BASIC.
> > I think that:
> > 10 FOR I=28000 TO 65535
> > 20 POKE I,123
> > 30 NEXT I
> >
> > don't take more than 10 seconds.
>
> Just filling the screen (16384 to 23295) takes ~50 seconds, so I find
> this claim... unlikely.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Phil
>
> --
> Philip Kendall <[email]>
> http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/
>
>
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
> Search.
---------------------------------
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7. Does this group have a spam filter or something??
M. Emrah Oral · Wed, 9 Jan 2008 05:05:
WTH!? I have been sending a message about the d**IDE interface to the group and eventhough I sent it three times in three days it insists on not showing up on the list. All I can think of is a spam filter type mechanism is filtering it!? I guess..
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8. Re: [ts2068] Re: Creating Arcade Games on Your TS 2068 Book???
Philip Kendall · Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:10:
> "Johnny Red (Timex)" <[email]> wrote: I might be wrong.
>
> But I remember that first 16K RAM is slower than 32K upper RAM
> because of the screen RAM.
> The ULA or the CPU must wait to access the first 16K RAM (I don't
> remember how it really works).
It's slower, but not that much slower. Filling from 32768 to 32768 +
8191 takes about 48 seconds.
See <http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Contended_memory> for exact
details on the Spectrum; if anyone has details for the TS2068, let Fred
and myself know as we'd love to emulate it correctly :-)
Cheers,
Phil
--
Philip Kendall <[email]>
http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/