Do you have 8-bit withdrawals?
2 messages · 2004-03-19 → 2004-03-24 · Yahoo Group era · View archive on archive.org
Participants: sarossellsantee, Jeff
Preserved from the Timex/Sinclair 2068 Yahoo Group (2001–2019), which is no longer online. Text reproduced from the archive.org archive; email addresses masked.
Messages
1. Do you have 8-bit withdrawals?
sarossellsantee · Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:12
I miss my $200 computer with BASIC as the OS, hard coded in the
system ROM. I miss line numbered BASIC (a little). I even miss
keyword BASIC (you Sinclair people know what I'm talking about.) I
miss Commodore, Atari, Apple, Osborne, Kaypro, Acorn, Apricot,
Cromemco, Texas Instruments, Tandy, Franklin, Memotech, Olivetti,
Timex, and Sinclair. Today, we have Apple and PC with Linux (Unix),
Apple OS X (Unix), Other Unix OS's, and Windows. Boring!
It's not about using a computer as a consumer appliance or an office
tool. It's not about wordprocessing, spreadsheets, or even the
Internet. It's not about power or size or speed. It's about fun.
It's about character. It's about style. It's about challenging
yourself to squeeze as much as you can out of an 8-bit machine with
programming and hardware projects.
It doesn't matter what other people might think. Some people like to
rebuild old cars. Some people collect old stamps. I choose to use
an old 8-bit computer. It's a hobby - Legacy Computing.
BUT! Recently I found myself tasked with a small security robotics
project. I thought, "Cool! Now is the time when I can impress my
friends and co-workers with a fully-functional 8-bit powered project
that costs near to nothing and will be fun to build."
My peers were caught in the Wintel power spiral and could not think
outside of the box, continually pushing for a ruggedized $3000 laptop
for the brain and a $1,000 drive base with $100 ultrasonic and
infrared sensor packs...
So, I sat down to design the cheap solution. I thought about current
Zilog solutions; ez80 and other similarly tiny surface mount bugs.
But hey! All I really need is a Timex/Sinclair 1000 with an I/O port
and a simple 2K program, right? Mount that little door stop computer
on top of a Radio Shack remote control car and you've got half the
battle won for under $50! Well...
The design specs called for some heavy hitting tech; mobile web cam,
wireless LAN, even GPS positioning! Come on! GPS? This thing is
going to run in an office two stories under ground?!
How could I possibly achieve the kind of specs they were asking for?
How could I translate what they were asking for into what they really
needed and then give it to them with cheap, legacy, 8-bit
technology? Wireless LAN? For what? They want to be able to
reconfigure and reprogram the unit remotely by terminal servicing
into the laptop. Mobile web cam? They want live video capability
over the wireless LAN. Hmmm... And where is all this information
going? To the PC. So why not make a cheap drone-bot that simply
serves as a mobile I/O unit and have the remote PC do all the hard
work?
How about a 2.5 Ghz wireless camera to a remote PC video input? How
about DTMF (telephone tones) over an FM radio transmitter to the
audio input of the PC? How about a dual function with the FM
transmitter and allow for two way voice communication using speech
synthesis and voicerecognition software on the remote PC? The drone-
bot would only need a microphone, speaker and FM transciever...
So, how would you do it?
2. Re: Do you have 8-bit withdrawals?
Jeff · Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:16
In response to sarossellsantee:
This is a tough decision. I try to use the appropriate technology
for a given situation with the final metric being whether the design
meets the requirements spec. Most of the goodies are being designed
for the PC market and so you can be pretty much locked into using
Wintel hardware unless you want to spend a lot of time fiddling with
writing drivers and adapting the hardware to your 8 bit micro. If the
project is what pays the rent, you really need to use tools that will
maximize your productivity and give the customer what she/he wants.
Having said the above, if you read the engineering trades (EE Times
and EDN, for instance) you will see that for deeply embedded designs
(usually defined as something with no direct or only a minimal user
interface such as a microwave oven controller), the 8 bit processors
are the bread and butter devices. There is still a premimum on
writing tight, correct code and using all of the tricks we learned on
(in my case) the TS1000 or other early computers. Bloated, poorly
written software just can't hack it in this application nor in high
rel applications such as avionics, nuclear control, medical, or other
areas where sloppiness can cost big bucks or lives.
Too often those who write the specs get enamoured with adding bells,
whistles, and gizmos that either are not well thought out, not needed
or just flat compromise the integrity of the design and push you into
using more technology than needed. For instance, the example of using
a wireless LAN to update the software in a security 'bot borders on
the criminally stupid. I spent enough years in military comms to
understand that this operation should be done using physical
connection behind a locked access door on the 'bot to minimize the
possibility of corrupted downloads and/or someone hacking into the
'bot and compromising its function.
Use what makes sense. If relatively simple control and interfacing
is required, 8 bit processors (maybe even distributed processors)
probably make the most sense. If the on-board functions must include
machine vision, voice recognition, or other computationally exepensive
operations, then use a 32 or 64 bit device with the horsepower you need.