New game. Help needed
9 messages · 2005-12-11 → 2005-12-11 · Yahoo Group era · View archive on archive.org
Participants: Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκος, Paolo Ferraris, \, alvin albrecht
Preserved from the Timex/Sinclair 2068 Yahoo Group (2001–2019), which is no longer online. Text reproduced from the archive.org archive; email addresses masked.
Messages
1. New game. Help needed
Paolo Ferraris · Sun, 11 Dec 2005 02:52
Hi everybody,
I don't know if you remember, but about a year ago I ported a game
that Luciano Costarelli and I wrote for the Spectrum 128k (4k race) to
the TS2068. This game was working on emulators only and not on the real
machine. Unfortunately, at that time I didn't have a real computer to
test/fix the bugs.
Now that I have a TS2068 I tried it again. Not on the same game, but on
a new version of the game. "4k race refueled" is a new version of 4k
race again for the Spectrum 128k. This porting is called "4k race
refueled+" because I included some better graphics from Luciano.
You can download it here:
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/otto/spectrum/4krace-rf-2068.zip
(You can wonder what "4k" in "4k race" means. It denotes the fact that
the size of the game (code+graphics) is not greater than 4096 bytes. In
fact, both 4k race and 4k race refueled were written to compete in the
2004 and 2005 minigame competition (http://www.ffd2.com/minigame )
respectively. The games were actually the winners in the 4k category.
The new graphics makes this porting much larger than 4k.)
The game is still in beta, because I have several questions that I
cannot answer by myself. This is where I need your help.
- The game should work on the TC2068 also. Can anybody verify that?
- The game can be played with the keyboard, and also by using a
joystick, but I don't have any. Can anybody verify that joystick
controls work?
- I noticed that on my TS2068 the sound of the car engine is very low
compared to the "extended time" sound (when you a checkpoint is
reached). This doesn't happen on TS/TC2068 and Spectrum emulators.
(Notice that I also don't have any real Spectrum in the USA). Can
anybody confirm the problem, or is it a defect of the speaker on my TS2068?
Thanks in advance,
Paolo
2. Re: [ts2068] New game. Help needed
\ · Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:38
Την Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:52:00 -0500,ο(η) Paolo Ferraris
<[email]> έγραψε:
> Hi everybody,
>
Hello Paolo,
> I don't know if you remember, but about a year ago I ported a game
> that Luciano Costarelli and I wrote for the Spectrum 128k (4k race) to
> the TS2068. This game was working on emulators only and not on the real
> machine. Unfortunately, at that time I didn't have a real computer to
> test/fix the bugs.
>
> Now that I have a TS2068 I tried it again. Not on the same game, but on
> a new version of the game. "4k race refueled" is a new version of 4k
> race again for the Spectrum 128k. This porting is called "4k race
> refueled+" because I included some better graphics from Luciano.
The damn thing is brilliant!
>
> You can download it here:
>
> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/otto/spectrum/4krace-rf-2068.zip
>
> (You can wonder what "4k" in "4k race" means. It denotes the fact that
> the size of the game (code+graphics) is not greater than 4096 bytes. In
> fact, both 4k race and 4k race refueled were written to compete in the
> 2004 and 2005 minigame competition (http://www.ffd2.com/minigame )
> respectively. The games were actually the winners in the 4k category.
> The new graphics makes this porting much larger than 4k.)
>
Hmm would it be possible for the graphics engine + graphics to be redone
to take into account the T/S extended colo(u)r mode?
I can help you with that. If you want a sample of my work, go here <url:
http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/QWord.html>. This is the first commercial
high-colour game for the Sinclair QL (I actually did the sound for that
too).
>
> The game is still in beta, because I have several questions that I
> cannot answer by myself. This is where I need your help.
>
> - The game should work on the TC2068 also. Can anybody verify that?
Can't help you there... that's next on my purchase list together with a
Spectrum 128K and a Sam Coupé. I do have a 48K + here though (upgraded to
use the ZXCF). Does it work there?
>
> - The game can be played with the keyboard, and also by using a
> joystick, but I don't have any. Can anybody verify that joystick
> controls work?
>
Can't answer that yet. I am making a T/S compatible joystick out of a
broken Jakks Pacific TV Game so I will let you know when this is done
> - I noticed that on my TS2068 the sound of the car engine is very low
> compared to the "extended time" sound (when you a checkpoint is
> reached). This doesn't happen on TS/TC2068 and Spectrum emulators.
> (Notice that I also don't have any real Spectrum in the USA). Can
> anybody confirm the problem, or is it a defect of the speaker on my
> TS2068?
I can confirm that :-(
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Paolo
>
>
Phoebus
3. Re: [ts2068] New game. Help needed
Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκος · Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:41
Την Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:38:29 -0500,ο(η) "Phoebus R. Dokos (Φοίβος Ρ.
Ντόκος)" <[email]> έγραψε:
On the subject of new games for the T/S 2068 I could use some assistance
porting a colour enhanced version of Manic Miner and the aforementioned
(see previous email) Q-Word. Anyone willing to help?
Phoebus
4. Re: [ts2068] New game. Help needed
Paolo Ferraris · Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:30
"Phoebus R. Dokos (Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκ""ος)" wrote:
> The damn thing is brilliant!
Thanks! :-)
> Hmm would it be possible for the graphics engine + graphics to be redone
> to take into account the T/S extended colo(u)r mode?
> I can help you with that. If you want a sample of my work, go here <url:
> http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/QWord.html>. This is the first commercial
> high-colour game for the Sinclair QL (I actually did the sound for that
> too).
It looks very nice, congratulations!
I know the T/S extended colo(u)r mode, and it would be great for the
background. Unfortunately, the game already uses the dual screen mode.
Adapting the game to the extended colo(u)r mode would slow it down
considerably, because, without the dual screen, I'd have to copy the
screen buffer. I think that, in racing games, a good frame rate is more
important than nicer graphics.
>>- I noticed that on my TS2068 the sound of the car engine is very low
>>compared to the "extended time" sound (when you a checkpoint is
>>reached). This doesn't happen on TS/TC2068 and Spectrum emulators.
>>(Notice that I also don't have any real Spectrum in the USA). Can
>>anybody confirm the problem, or is it a defect of the speaker on my
>>TS2068?
>
> I can confirm that :-(
Thanks! This, fortunately, is not a big problem. I can adjust the volume
of the channels.
-p
5. Re: [ts2068] New game. Help needed
Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκος · Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:52
Την Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:30:57 -0500,ο(η) Paolo Ferraris
<[email]> έγραψε:
> "Phoebus R. Dokos (Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκ""ος)" wrote:
>
>> The damn thing is brilliant!
>
> Thanks! :-)
Don't thank me... It deserves it... Better than any racing game I played
on the Spectrum. Even better than Outrun or other commercial games!
>
>> Hmm would it be possible for the graphics engine + graphics to be redone
>> to take into account the T/S extended colo(u)r mode?
>> I can help you with that. If you want a sample of my work, go here <url:
>> http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/QWord.html>. This is the first commercial
>> high-colour game for the Sinclair QL (I actually did the sound for that
>> too).
>
> It looks very nice, congratulations!
Did you play it? The demo download, downloads a complete emulator
installation and virtual HDD so it runs like a native PC app. (Uses
DirectX too). It is not too big however :-)
>
> I know the T/S extended colo(u)r mode, and it would be great for the
> background. Unfortunately, the game already uses the dual screen mode.
> Adapting the game to the extended colo(u)r mode would slow it down
> considerably, because, without the dual screen, I'd have to copy the
> screen buffer. I think that, in racing games, a good frame rate is more
> important than nicer graphics.
That's true, although I do think that it wouldn't create so much trouble.
Being so small the dual screen could be maintained per se albeit in a
different memory location. IIRC the T/S hardware doesn't do double
buffering itself right?
In any case you could use third and fourth "DFILE+AFILE" locations. It
would be slower yes, but I do not think it would be considerable.
We do need some decent games like 4K Racing on the T/S as the machine's
capabilities haven't been really tapped. At least not at the extent that
the Spectrum's have been.
BTW Speaking of games etc development, does anyone know if the z80dk is
compatible with the T/S?
>
>>> - I noticed that on my TS2068 the sound of the car engine is very low
>>> compared to the "extended time" sound (when you a checkpoint is
>>> reached). This doesn't happen on TS/TC2068 and Spectrum emulators.
>>> (Notice that I also don't have any real Spectrum in the USA). Can
>>> anybody confirm the problem, or is it a defect of the speaker on my
>>> TS2068?
>>
>> I can confirm that :-(
>
> Thanks! This, fortunately, is not a big problem. I can adjust the volume
> of the channels.
>
That's what I figured too. You know, you could adapt one of them AY tunes
freely available on the net for some extra pizzazz!
> -p
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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6. Re: [ts2068] New game. Help needed
Paolo Ferraris · Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:58
Phoebus R. Dokos (Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκος) wrote:
> That's true, although I do think that it wouldn't create so much trouble.
> Being so small the dual screen could be maintained per se albeit in a
> different memory location. IIRC the T/S hardware doesn't do double
> buffering itself right?
It does. While video mode 0 is the standard Spectrum video mode at the
usual address 4000h, video mode 1 has the same resolution at memory
address 6000h. This is similar to the second screen in page 7 of
Spectrum 128k. (This is the main reason why the original game doesn't
work on the Spectrum 48k).
> In any case you could use third and fourth "DFILE+AFILE" locations. It
> would be slower yes, but I do not think it would be considerable.
Unfortunately it would be. Even assuming that we don't need to buffer
AFILE, and assuming that we need only 16 T-states to transfer one byte
of memory [1], moving a buffer requires about 27867 microseconds, more
than 1/50th of a second. I can guarantee you that there is a huge
difference between 9 frames/seconds as it is now and 7 f/s, the maximun
that you can get with the extended color mode.
[1] 16 T-states is the time needed to execute a single LDI instruction.
In unrolling is used, this is the instruction that has to be used the
most. The calculation doesn't consider memory contention.
> BTW Speaking of games etc development, does anyone know if the z80dk is
> compatible with the T/S?
You mean z88dk? It doesn't have official support. But I guess that the
compiled code, if it doesn't use Spectrum ROM routines, should work on
the TS/TC2068 as well.
-p
7. Re: [ts2068] New game. Help needed
alvin albrecht · Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:11
> > background. Unfortunately, the game already uses the dual screen mode.
> > Adapting the game to the extended colo(u)r mode would slow it down
> > considerably, because, without the dual screen, I'd have to copy the
> > screen buffer. I think that, in racing games, a good frame rate is more
> > important than nicer graphics.
>That's true, although I do think that it wouldn't create so much trouble.
>Being so small the dual screen could be maintained per se albeit in a
>different memory location. IIRC the T/S hardware doesn't do double
>buffering itself right?
Yes it does :-D
>BTW Speaking of games etc development, does anyone know if the z80dk is
>compatible with the T/S?
Almost :) There is no ts2068 specific target as of now (this is
something I will get around to correcting sooner or later --
or maybe you would like to help with that to make it sooner
rather than later :-D ) but you can use the spectrum target
to generate code. A few z88dk lib functions call into the
ROM which causes the compatibility issues (things like BEEP,
the scroll text code for standard output and a few other
isolated modules), but you can work around these things
fairly easily if you are motivated. I would suggest writing
a program with spectrum emulator (or tc2048 emulator
if you want to use the advanced display modes of the 2068)
and then fix it up afterward. I'd be happy to help with
the latter. splib2, a sprite package for z88dk, also supports
the 512x192 mode and the hi colour modes of the
2068, but this may not be ideal for something like QWORD --
it has a largeish memory footprint esp in hi-colour mode
when you wouldn't likely need much of the lib for
such a program.
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8. Re: [ts2068] New game. Help needed
Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκος · Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:25
Την Sun, 11 Dec 2005 15:58:47 -0500,ο(η) Paolo Ferraris
<[email]> έγραψε:
> Phoebus R. Dokos (Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκος) wrote:
>> That's true, although I do think that it wouldn't create so much
>> trouble.
>> Being so small the dual screen could be maintained per se albeit in a
>> different memory location. IIRC the T/S hardware doesn't do double
>> buffering itself right?
>
> It does. While video mode 0 is the standard Spectrum video mode at the
> usual address 4000h, video mode 1 has the same resolution at memory
> address 6000h. This is similar to the second screen in page 7 of
> Spectrum 128k. (This is the main reason why the original game doesn't
> work on the Spectrum 48k).
I see now. I am very new to the T/S 2068 so I didn't even have time to
completely go over the manuals and tech reference. Don't worry I'll learn
:-P
>
>> In any case you could use third and fourth "DFILE+AFILE" locations. It
>> would be slower yes, but I do not think it would be considerable.
>
> Unfortunately it would be. Even assuming that we don't need to buffer
> AFILE, and assuming that we need only 16 T-states to transfer one byte
> of memory [1], moving a buffer requires about 27867 microseconds, more
> than 1/50th of a second. I can guarantee you that there is a huge
> difference between 9 frames/seconds as it is now and 7 f/s, the maximun
> that you can get with the extended color mode.
I see. However if you see Outrun or Pole Position (I leave out Chequered
flag as it is really of paleontological interest only), it would still be
contending with those and even more colours
>
> [1] 16 T-states is the time needed to execute a single LDI instruction.
> In unrolling is used, this is the instruction that has to be used the
> most. The calculation doesn't consider memory contention.
>
>> BTW Speaking of games etc development, does anyone know if the z80dk is
>> compatible with the T/S?
>
> You mean z88dk? It doesn't have official support. But I guess that the
> compiled code, if it doesn't use Spectrum ROM routines, should work on
> the TS/TC2068 as well.
>
>
Yes that's what I meant :-) Thanks
Phoebus
9. Re: [ts2068] New game. Help needed
Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκος · Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:32
Την Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:11:40 -0500,ο(η) alvin albrecht
<[email]> έγραψε:
>> > background. Unfortunately, the game already uses the dual screen mode.
>> > Adapting the game to the extended colo(u)r mode would slow it down
>> > considerably, because, without the dual screen, I'd have to copy the
>> > screen buffer. I think that, in racing games, a good frame rate is
>> more
>> > important than nicer graphics.
>
>> That's true, although I do think that it wouldn't create so much
>> trouble.
>> Being so small the dual screen could be maintained per se albeit in a
>> different memory location. IIRC the T/S hardware doesn't do double
>> buffering itself right?
>
> Yes it does :-D
As I said to my previous message... still a newbie to the intricacies of
T/S HW & Software ;-)
>
>> BTW Speaking of games etc development, does anyone know if the z80dk is
>> compatible with the T/S?
>
> Almost :) There is no ts2068 specific target as of now (this is
> something I will get around to correcting sooner or later --
> or maybe you would like to help with that to make it sooner
> rather than later :-D )
I would :-) As soon as I am done with FreeQDOS <url:
http://freeqdos.dokos-gr.net> a replacement OS for the Q40 and Q60 QL
compatible Machines based on Minerva - The project is VERY NEAR completion
> but you can use the spectrum target
> to generate code. A few z88dk lib functions call into the
> ROM which causes the compatibility issues (things like BEEP,
> the scroll text code for standard output and a few other
> isolated modules), but you can work around these things
> fairly easily if you are motivated. I would suggest writing
> a program with spectrum emulator (or tc2048 emulator
> if you want to use the advanced display modes of the 2068)
> and then fix it up afterward. I'd be happy to help with
> the latter. splib2, a sprite package for z88dk, also supports
> the 512x192 mode and the hi colour modes of the
> 2068, but this may not be ideal for something like QWORD --
> it has a largeish memory footprint esp in hi-colour mode
> when you wouldn't likely need much of the lib for
> such a program.
>
For a port of Q-Word, the code is fairly compatible as it is actual
Sinclair SuperBasic and it could compile with a slightly modified version
of Simon Goodwin's ZIP compiler (which belongs to the same family as
Turbo). The graphics code would be the one with the problems actually and
for that z88dk (I wrote it correctly this time) would be very helpful. I
have only trivially played with it for a Z88 program I wrote a long time
ago, but it should be straightforward enough from what you tell me.
As far as QWord is concerned, the greater challenge would be the
dictionary routines. Running from tape it would be impossible to use a
decent size dictionary. Only a disk or Microdrive (see other thread) based
system would suffice (Even better with a divIDE).
I will take you up on your offer soon ;-)
The other project that would be interested in would be a port of lwIP for
the T/S. (that's where z88dk would be most helpful). Dominic Morris' own
stack for the Z88 is way too big for what I want to do (basically run a
webserver off my T/S)
Phoebus