Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
68 messages · 2009-08-02 → 2009-08-22 · Yahoo Group era · View archive on archive.org
Participants: Timex, Al Hartman, Mark Scheck, zniedzwiedz, Philip Kendall, Oscar Arthur Koepke, cheveron, zxbruno, Bill, Rod H, Fred, Bill Loguidice, Rich Mellor, James Diffendaffer, Richard Burt, Jack Boatwright
Attachments in thread: 1 (see the archive.org item)
Preserved from the Timex/Sinclair 2068 Yahoo Group (2001–2019), which is no longer online. Text reproduced from the archive.org archive; email addresses masked.
Messages
1. Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
zxbruno · Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:34
Jose Manuel from Spain is working on his own Timex section and has helped me with software preservation once again. This time 6 original cassettes belonging to the Zebra Graphics Designer series were preserved as .TZX files and the accompanying material is being scanned. The problem is, the graphics were meant to be used with a program called "Graphic Designer" which was partially overwritten with other software. Is there someone who have this software and is willing to make a .TZX?
Meanwhile, José Leandro (also from Spain) has helped me preserve about a dozen eproms and I'm in the process of scanning and converting to PDF all the material that came with them. These are the items that Rich Mellor offered here in the group about 2 months ago. I bought all of them so they could be preserved. These are some of the things that you cacan expect to see in a month or so:
-T/S Smart Terminal Communications manual by Rabby Carter
-Eprom Services interface instructions booklet (
-The 32K Non-Volatile ram Owner's manual by Thomas B. Woods
-Operations manual for the TS2050 and Mterm software
-Software manual for Mterm Software
-The guide to T/S telecommunications by T/S users, edited by P.Fischer & Steve Ishii
-Winky board 2000 instructions booklet
-The John Oliger Co. 2068 Parallel Printer port user manual
-The John Oliger Co. 2068 Floppy Disk Interface featuring Jlo Safe v2 user manual
-Eproms (to be used in TS2068 cartridges, Oliger's FDD's, etc. I never used these and never had the interfaces so it's very complicated for me to understand what they are)
Jlo Safe v2.5 1988 T.41, Jlo Safe v2.52, Oliger 2.30, Jlo 2.5P, Jlo Safe Disc Basic v2.40 1985, Jlo 2.64 t=80, Oliger 2.62, SafeDos 2.65, Aerco Disk Spectrum/TS2068, Ados v10.1 ck7c80, Mterm 2, Hot-Z/Aros/LList_to_2040, Hot-Z/Aros/LList_to_Lrg_printer, ProFile Cartridge for TS2068, Larken LKDOS version 3 SC-787358, Larken LKDOS Verion L3F SC-781829, Larken version L3 SC-781472, TS2068 Toolkit 8000-P?0FFF, TS2068 Toolkit 8000-DFFF
Little by little, all these things are being preserved.
2. Re:Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:37
Being one of the authors of the Zebra Graphics Designer and the artist
of the graphics that came with it, I would not appreciate our copyright
being violated by having any Zebra Software posted.
I have originals of all the software and manuals, and don't need any
help "preserving" them. Please remove all Zebra Systems software from
the archive.
You will need to have Stewart Newfeld's permission to post that software.
Al Hartman
formerly of Zebra Systems, Inc.
3. Re: [ts2068] Re:Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:32:
Are those preserved so anyone can see?
Or are all in a safe on the bottom of the sea?
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 3, 2009, at 11:37 PM, Al Hartman wrote:
> Being one of the authors of the Zebra Graphics Designer and the artist
> of the graphics that came with it, I would not appreciate our
> copyright
> being violated by having any Zebra Software posted.
>
> I have originals of all the software and manuals, and don't need any
> help "preserving" them. Please remove all Zebra Systems software from
> the archive.
>
> You will need to have Stewart Newfeld's permission to post that
> software.
>
> Al Hartman
> formerly of Zebra Systems, Inc.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
4. RE: [ts2068] Re:Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Rich Mellor · Tue, 4 Aug 2009 05:36:
To a large extent, the preservation of software is not intended to breach any copyright - just to ensure that the software is still available to users into the future.
If Zebra systems still made this software available to purchase, then this would be as good as preservation of the tape images.
I am always looking for more items to offer through my own website (http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk) if Zebra systems is no longer interested in selling the items themselves....
Rich
To: [email]
From: [email]
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:32:34 +0100
Subject: Re: [ts2068] Re:Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Are those preserved so anyone can see?
Or are all in a safe on the bottom of the sea?
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 3, 2009, at 11:37 PM, Al Hartman wrote:
> Being one of the authors of the Zebra Graphics Designer and the artist
> of the graphics that came with it, I would not appreciate our
> copyright
> being violated by having any Zebra Software posted.
>
> I have originals of all the software and manuals, and don't need any
> help "preserving" them. Please remove all Zebra Systems software from
> the archive.
>
> You will need to have Stewart Newfeld's permission to post that
> software.
>
> Al Hartman
> formerly of Zebra Systems, Inc.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and emoticons.
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/
5. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:35
Zebra owns the copyrights to it's software. If you want it available for
sale... posting it for free on a website isn't the way to have that happen.
Copyright law doesn't say that if an owner isn't currently selling their
products, that it's open season for someone else to give it away for
free. Zebra still owns its software and retains all control over its
distribution.
I have the rights to distribute the Graphics Designer, and am currently
working on re-releasing it on all platforms.
I just need to track down my set of manuals so I can make copies to
provide with the tapes/disks.
Please remove the software from any and all archive sites.
Thanks!
6. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Philip Kendall · Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:03:
On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 09:35:09AM -0400, Al Hartman wrote:
>
> I have the rights to distribute the Graphics Designer, and am currently
> working on re-releasing it on all platforms.
A serious question - why? It's not going to make you any money - we've
seen enough retro era companies try this and fail miserably, so we know
it's not a valid business model.
Cheers,
Phil
--
Philip Kendall <[email]>
http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/
7. RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Bill Loguidice · Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:09:
Well, depending on the platforms, it could surely sell a handful of copies.
As long as it's available, I'd personally be happy and would certainly be
interested for the right price.
====================================================
Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
Armchair Arcade, Inc.
http://www.armchairarcade.com <http://www.armchairarcade.com/>
A PC Magazine Top 100 Website
====================================================
Authored Books: http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
====================================================
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
====================================================
From: [email] [mailto:[email]] On Behalf Of
Philip Kendall
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:03 AM
To: [email]
Subject: Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics
designer
On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 09:35:09AM -0400, Al Hartman wrote:
>
> I have the rights to distribute the Graphics Designer, and am currently
> working on re-releasing it on all platforms.
A serious question - why? It's not going to make you any money - we've
seen enough retro era companies try this and fail miserably, so we know
it's not a valid business model.
Cheers,
Phil
--
Philip Kendall <[email]
<mailto:philip%40shadowmagic.org.uk> >
http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/
8. Re:Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:43
They are preserved in the care of the owners of the software. It's up to the owners of the software who can "see" it, and under what conditions.
It's not up to "anyone" to steal it, if the owner isn't currently allowing anyone to "see" it.
As one of the authors of the software, you have no idea how infuriating your attitude is to me. Should I go to your home or workplace and steal your property just because I feel like it, and you aren't currently offering it for sale?
Maybe someday you will create something of value and watch other people steal it and understand how wrong it is.
I would think you'd have more respect for another member of the community than to steal his work.
Al
--- In [email], "Johnny Red (Timex)" <timex.pt@...> wrote:
>
> Are those preserved so anyone can see?
> Or are all in a safe on the bottom of the sea?
>
> Encarnado, Portugal
9. Re: [ts2068] Re:Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:54:
On Aug 4, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Al Hartman wrote:
> They are preserved in the care of the owners of the software. It's
> up to the owners of the software who can "see" it, and under what
> conditions.
>
> It's not up to "anyone" to steal it, if the owner isn't currently
> allowing anyone to "see" it.
First, I don't want to steal it. It was just to see what the program
does and what it is capable of doing on a Timex/Spectrum at that time.
Second, why would I steal software for a dead computer system no one
uses anymore?
Third, It would be wrong if I used it to gain money, but it's not the
case...
> As one of the authors of the software, you have no idea how
> infuriating your attitude is to me. Should I go to your home or
> workplace and steal your property just because I feel like it, and
> you aren't currently offering it for sale?
Almost everything I do, I gave it for free. I don't charge the use of
my Gmax models, Timex pictures, manual scans, text that I had typed
and translated by myself or the access to any of my websites. I pay
from my pocket programs, domains, webserver space to host all my
stuff for everyone.
Why would I sell it? To see it running on torrents on a day or two?
Let it be free. Maybe everyone uses it or not. Who cares. It's there.
> Maybe someday you will create something of value and watch other
> people steal it and understand how wrong it is.
Impossible. If I would do such a thing it would be someone else to
take the credits (like I do with my models).
> I would think you'd have more respect for another member of the
> community than to steal his work.
Is preserving and make it available for free, software for a computer
with more than 20 years, stealing?
Who would be making money out of it? Who would reverse engineering it
to take this or that piece to use on his own program?
There are better programs and hardware today. Leave retro-computing
live free.
Encarnado, Portugal
10. Re:Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Bill · Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:54
Wow. Good luck getting some revenue out of those copyrights, when the files are stashed away in your basement, safe from the eyes of anyone who would remember or even care about it.
You might also find those audio tapes aren't as reliable a storage medium as you thought, and appreciate the fact someone else made a backup copy, should you yourself need them some day. I had stored my ZX81 and TS2068 systems and tapes in a very high-quality case in a humidity- and temperature-controlled environment only to find about half of the tapes to be unusable. The only record I have of my software are a few printouts (the metallic ones from the original ZX printer being much better preserved than the thermal output from the 2040).
Obviously it's your prerogative to come down like a wet blanket on the folks doing this work. But the value of having a thorough, complete archive of this historic platform's software/documentation, and the benefit we all realize from the time-consuming, non-compensated work of fans of the system, I think outweighs our individual interests.
I don't know whether you're simply ashamed of your work, think this is somehow a "nest egg" you're hoping will be worth money some day, or standing on some "principle." But certainly the best results obtainable on this platform of thirty-some years ago are simply not of any commercial value in a world of megapixel, true-color imagery and sophisticated bezier-curve, vector artwork.
It would be more than reasonable to request that any archive contain credit and contact information for you and your colleague. You might even get some business out of that. But honestly, to outright refuse your work to be part of a collection strikes me as a little petty given the reality. I hope you reconsider your stand on this. If you still have contact information for your partner of long ago, it would be big of you to write him and seek his consent as well.
--- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
> Being one of the authors of the Zebra Graphics Designer and
> the artist of the graphics that came with it, I would not
> appreciate our copyright being violated by having any
> Zebra Software posted.
11. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Bill · Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:26
Al,
You're correct about the law, but sadly mistaken about the technological and business realities. As I've written previously, it's certainly your right to pull your software from any archives. But you're clearly deluded on the business case for this software and the current state of the retro-computing hobby niche.
You say you're "working on re-releasing it on all platforms." You obviously can't be much further along on this than the pipe-dream stage. For starters, there is no modern computing system that will run ZX Basic or any variant of it to create a proper standalone application. There is no modern computing system that runs Z80 machine code, either. Possibly you could embed some kind of emulator, but who would want to run that for any kind of production work? Modern computing systems have windowing systems, pull-down menus, sophisticated multi-button mouse controls, keyboard shortcuts, HTML-based help systems, online updaters, long filename support, high-resolution monitors, the list goes on and on. If you wanted to take the original concept and re-imagine it for today's environment, it would be a complete rewrite from the ground up. Anything less would be an exercise in futility. Yet you're looking for the old manuals as if the new version will function nearly identically? (Ironic that this is something the archive you oppose could assist with.)
Furthermore, let's say that somehow you were far along on releasing such a beast. Having the ancient version of your program on an archive with attribution is nothing less than free marketing. No one in their right mind would use the old version of the program in lieu of your modern edition. If you were somehow interested in selling a work-alike version of your software to those who love the Timex/Sinclair platform, well you've managed to just about decimate the good will of everyone in your target market/community, with selfish antics such as your recent posts.
There have been a few truly useful pieces of software out there which attempted to make a profit on the Timex/Sinclair legacy; I remember an emulator for the Palm platform, for example. None of them made any money.
Really, you're making this decision on an unrealistic and irrational, emotional basis, not common sense and good reason.
--- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
> Copyright law doesn't say that if an owner isn't currently selling
> their products, that it's open season for someone else to give it
> away for free. Zebra still owns its software and retains all control
> over its distribution.
>
> I have the rights to distribute the Graphics Designer, and am
> currently working on re-releasing it on all platforms.
>
> I just need to track down my set of manuals so I can make copies to
> provide with the tapes/disks.
12. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:55
None of you seem to understand what ownership means.
It means that Zebra Systems owns it. You don't.
Doesn't matter if the platform is dead, or there's little to no money to
be made from it anymore.
It's the idea that someone else other than the owner of the IP decided
to give it away for free.
All of you have made the same arguments that people always make about
old software for old platforms. None of your arguments are new, and none
change the law.
I've been helpful on this forum. Why would you want to harm me by giving
away my work for free against my wishes, and against the law?
I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068. That
is the "all platforms" I referred to.
I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free" unit
-- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
I'm buying a house and moving soon, but once that's done... I'll get
moving on the project.
I'd appreciate your support in this.
13. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Philip Kendall · Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:40:
On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 08:55:15AM -0400, Al Hartman wrote:
>
> I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068. That
> is the "all platforms" I referred to.
>
> I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
> support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free" unit
> -- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
Again, let me ask you one question: why do you think you can make any
money out of this at all, when nobody else can?
Look at Cronosoft. They're selling high quality, new software for a
machines with a *much* bigger user base than the TS2068 and they
don't make any money.
(Also, their marketing didn't start off by being rude to their
potential customer base)
> I'd appreciate your support in this.
I'm not going to buy anything you sell, and I'd advise you to stop
wasting your time and money. You're not better, and your software's
not better, than the other people who have tried this and failed.
That said, it's your time and money; you can do with it as you will.
It's just disappointing that other people won't get to use your software
because you've badly misjudged the size of the market. I'd be surprised
if you sell as many as ten copies, if you actually get as far as making
them available at all.
Just to make it clear: I completely agree that you have the legal right
to do what you're doing. That doesn't mean that my respect for you will
be increased by your actions here; in fact, much the reverse, and I'm
guessing I'm not the only one.
The rant ends here. I don't think it will be listened to, but there you
go.
Cheers,
Phil
--
Philip Kendall <[email]>
http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/
14. RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Rod H · Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:27:
Correction: it was TWO 2068s I sent you FREE for only the cost of shipping.
To: [email]
From: [email]
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:55:15 -0400
Subject: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
None of you seem to understand what ownership means.
It means that Zebra Systems owns it. You don't.
Doesn't matter if the platform is dead, or there's little to no money to
be made from it anymore.
It's the idea that someone else other than the owner of the IP decided
to give it away for free.
All of you have made the same arguments that people always make about
old software for old platforms. None of your arguments are new, and none
change the law.
I've been helpful on this forum. Why would you want to harm me by giving
away my work for free against my wishes, and against the law?
I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068. That
is the "all platforms" I referred to.
I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free" unit
-- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
I'm buying a house and moving soon, but once that's done... I'll get
moving on the project.
I'd appreciate your support in this.
_________________________________________________________________
More storage. Better anti-spam and antivirus protection. Hotmail makes it simple.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671357
15. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Wed, 5 Aug 2009 23:19:
On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:55 PM, Al Hartman wrote:
> None of you seem to understand what ownership means.
>
> It means that Zebra Systems owns it. You don't.
>
> Doesn't matter if the platform is dead, or there's little to no
> money to
> be made from it anymore.
>
> It's the idea that someone else other than the owner of the IP decided
> to give it away for free.
>
> All of you have made the same arguments that people always make about
> old software for old platforms. None of your arguments are new, and
> none
> change the law.
>
> I've been helpful on this forum. Why would you want to harm me by
> giving
> away my work for free against my wishes, and against the law?
>
> I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068.
> That
> is the "all platforms" I referred to.
>
> I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
> support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free"
> unit
> -- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
>
> I'm buying a house and moving soon, but once that's done... I'll get
> moving on the project.
>
> I'd appreciate your support in this.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
16. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Wed, 5 Aug 2009 23:47:
On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:55 PM, Al Hartman wrote:
> None of you seem to understand what ownership means.
Yes I do.
> It means that Zebra Systems owns it. You don't.
True. Like other bigger software companies that allow their software
to be on the archive and Amstrad letting emulators use ZX Spectrum
ROMs for free. Sad that we don't know yet about Timex 2068 ROMs...
> Doesn't matter if the platform is dead, or there's little to no
> money to
> be made from it anymore.
It really does. Platform dead = no one to buy it so IF no one to buy
it THEN it has no use for today computing and it will be a fail.
> It's the idea that someone else other than the owner of the IP decided
> to give it away for free.
>
> All of you have made the same arguments that people always make about
> old software for old platforms. None of your arguments are new, and
> none
> change the law.
Copyright "dies" in a matter of time. (75 years?). Then it should be
no longer be usable because the only source has been corrupted or it
got lost.
> I've been helpful on this forum. Why would you want to harm me by
> giving
> away my work for free against my wishes, and against the law?
Why would we? Do you think you will get rich by selling it? Law?
Everyone breaks the law. If it isn't related to software, is speeding
with a car, or something else.
> I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068.
> That
> is the "all platforms" I referred to.
>
> I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
> support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free"
> unit
> -- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
You are expecting to make $50 from it just to cover the shipping of a
free computer!?
Are you for real? How much would you expect to sell a copy? How do
you expect to deliver it? By email? On a cassete? How much does a new
(or used) cassete costs today? Will all your work and time lost with
this ever be payed?
Philip Kendall is right. It's hard to make profit on retro-computing.
Even Sega MegaDrive (Genesis in the US) is difficult to revive
despite several attempts by several companies. They all fail sooner
or later. Great expectations, the same thing and it dies.
> I'm buying a house and moving soon, but once that's done... I'll get
> moving on the project.
>
> I'd appreciate your support in this.
I can't support you as I don't buy software for my Timex computers
that is not Timex branded (as I'm only searching things with Timex
brand) and the price you will ask for it would be too much for me for
something I will never use.
Encarnado, Portugal
PS: there is only one thing I would want from Zebra Systems, that
would be "ZEBRA COPY" if it ever existed.
17. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Mark Scheck · Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:50:
Al, Here's my take there buddy. There's maybe a 100 of us, on this list. Sorry to say no one is really interested in Timex Sinclairs, they sold what 100,000 machines back in the day. This isn't a Commodore or Apple or Atari list, hell the TI99 was a more popular platform.
So out of your 100 people what 30 might use a emulator to see what you did, with Zebra Graphics.
Are you going to charge what a new Xbox cartridge on a hot game would cost?
Tops you could charge would be 20 bucks, now out of those 30 people most including myself wouldn't buy something we use for nostalgic reasons a few times a year. So 200 bucks really dude. Setup a paypal account and I'll deposit some money in for your efforts, You should be cool to the community that still talks about your software 25 years later. Just my 2 cents.
By the way I played Hungry Horace in a emulator the other day, it was way cooler when I was 13 ;-)
On another side note does serial joysticks work with FUSE?
________________________________
From: Johnny Red (Timex) <[email]>
To: [email]
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 6:47:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:55 PM, Al Hartman wrote:
> None of you seem to understand what ownership means.
Yes I do.
> It means that Zebra Systems owns it. You don't.
True. Like other bigger software companies that allow their software
to be on the archive and Amstrad letting emulators use ZX Spectrum
ROMs for free. Sad that we don't know yet about Timex 2068 ROMs...
> Doesn't matter if the platform is dead, or there's little to no
> money to
> be made from it anymore.
It really does. Platform dead = no one to buy it so IF no one to buy
it THEN it has no use for today computing and it will be a fail.
> It's the idea that someone else other than the owner of the IP decided
> to give it away for free.
>
> All of you have made the same arguments that people always make about
> old software for old platforms. None of your arguments are new, and
> none
> change the law.
Copyright "dies" in a matter of time. (75 years?). Then it should be
no longer be usable because the only source has been corrupted or it
got lost.
> I've been helpful on this forum. Why would you want to harm me by
> giving
> away my work for free against my wishes, and against the law?
Why would we? Do you think you will get rich by selling it? Law?
Everyone breaks the law. If it isn't related to software, is speeding
with a car, or something else.
> I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068.
> That
> is the "all platforms" I referred to.
>
> I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
> support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free"
> unit
> -- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
You are expecting to make $50 from it just to cover the shipping of a
free computer!?
Are you for real? How much would you expect to sell a copy? How do
you expect to deliver it? By email? On a cassete? How much does a new
(or used) cassete costs today? Will all your work and time lost with
this ever be payed?
Philip Kendall is right. It's hard to make profit on retro-computing.
Even Sega MegaDrive (Genesis in the US) is difficult to revive
despite several attempts by several companies. They all fail sooner
or later. Great expectations, the same thing and it dies.
> I'm buying a house and moving soon, but once that's done... I'll get
> moving on the project.
>
> I'd appreciate your support in this.
I can't support you as I don't buy software for my Timex computers
that is not Timex branded (as I'm only searching things with Timex
brand) and the price you will ask for it would be too much for me for
something I will never use.
Encarnado, Portugal
PS: there is only one thing I would want from Zebra Systems, that
would be "ZEBRA COPY" if it ever existed.
18. Fuse serial joysticks?
Fred · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:54:
Could you elaborate on this a little:
Which OS are you running (Linux?)
If Linux, which build (gtk, sdl etc.)
By serial, do you mean USB?
For example, I expect a USB Competition pro joysick with SDL Fuse on
Linux would work.
Fred
On 06/08/2009, at 9:50, Mark Scheck <[email]> wrote:
> On another side note does serial joysticks work with FUSE?
19. Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
Mark Scheck · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 04:20:
Windows 7 running fuse, old serial joystick. Didn't even think of usb.
________________________________
From: Fred <[email]>
To: "[email]" <[email]>
Cc: "[email]" <[email]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 8:54:01 PM
Subject: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
Could you elaborate on this a little:
Which OS are you running (Linux?)
If Linux, which build (gtk, sdl etc.)
By serial, do you mean USB?
For example, I expect a USB Competition pro joysick with SDL Fuse on
Linux would work.
Fred
On 06/08/2009, at 9:50, Mark Scheck <markscheck@yahoo. com> wrote:
> On another side note does serial joysticks work with FUSE?
20. Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
Fred · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:37:
On 06/08/2009, at 21:20, Mark Scheck wrote:
> Windows 7 running fuse, old serial joystick. Didn't even think of usb.
I'm not an expert on the Windows version support for joysticks, but I
think it should work as long as there is a driver installed for the
joystick?
Fred
21. Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
Timex · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:23:
Are you calling serial joysticks the ones with a D9 plug?
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 6, 2009, at 12:20 PM, Mark Scheck wrote:
>
>
> Windows 7 running fuse, old serial joystick. Didn't even think of usb.
>
> From: Fred <[email]>
> To: "[email]" <[email]>
> Cc: "[email]" <[email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 8:54:01 PM
> Subject: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
>
> Could you elaborate on this a little:
> Which OS are you running (Linux?)
> If Linux, which build (gtk, sdl etc.)
> By serial, do you mean USB?
>
> For example, I expect a USB Competition pro joysick with SDL Fuse on
> Linux would work.
>
> Fred
>
> On 06/08/2009, at 9:50, Mark Scheck <markscheck@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > On another side note does serial joysticks work with FUSE?
>
>
>
>
>
22. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:55
Philip,
If I sell 10 copies, I should get my investment back and that will make
me happy.
Why do you think I mean to make this a business?
Maybe I want to sell a few copies to pay for my 2068 and that's all?
You
are making up a whole bunch of story because you've got your panties in
a bunch for being caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
I don't think I'm better than anyone, or this software is better than
any other software out there.
I DO think that someone other than the members of this list owns the
distribution rights to it, and owns the copyright. No facile rhetoric
changes it.
Do you know how much great software has disappeared because the owners
took it with them when they stopped selling it? Lots.
Guess what, the world moves on.
And, it still doesn't make it legal, or right to post it on a website
and give it away for free without the owner's permission.
23. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:13
$20?
WAY too much. I was thinking something like $9.95 + shipping which would
include a manual, and cassette tape. Stewart gets part of that as a
royalty and part goes for the cost of the tape and manual.
If I sell 10 copies, I get my $50 back and maybe enough for a beer and a
burger.
I also have the Car Sign Designer which will come with a bit of yellow
paper, three car sign holders and a tape/manual for the same price.
I have a couple of other things including some Softsync and Timex 2068
titles for the TS/1000 and 2068. We were thinking $10 for a selection of
10 TS-1000 tapes plus shipping. $5.00 each for the 2068 titles (Zeus
Assembler among them).
I also have some books for both platforms.
I have to inventory what we have left from Zebra's stock and make a
list/webpage.
This is all stuff that isn't available anymore and perhaps some people
would like to have.
I'm not looking to make a million here, just to keep stuff out of the
landfill and maybe get some stuff that people want, but missed buying
into their hands.
It cost us gas and tolls to drive to State College PA to rescue this
stuff, and we don't think it's unreasonable to make a buck or two to pay
for that.
You guys are making up a huge story here that isn't real.
I'm not looking to make a business out of this, or to rip anyone off.
I'm disabled and unemployed and if I can make a couple of dollars to buy
a beer and a burger every so often as a treat... that's about all I'm
looking for.
24. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Philip Kendall · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:41: · 📎 1: file
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 10:55:43AM -0400, Al Hartman wrote:
>
> Maybe I want to sell a few copies to pay for my 2068 and that's all?
But you didn't pay anything for the TS2068s Rod gave you. That's been
established already.
Realistically, if you're that bothered about the $50 or whatever you
paid for the *shipping* of your TS2068s, there are far easier ways to
make that kind of money than attempting to sell copies of 1980s
software.
In fact, I'll make it really easy for you. I will personally give you
$50 if you agree to make Graphic Designer freely distributable in
perpetuity. You (or whoever currently owns the copyright) gets to keep
the copyright. All that money buys is for anyone to distribute
unmodified copies of Graphic Designer.
If you're really just trying to "pay" for your TS2068, I can't see any
reason you wouldn't take me up on this offer. I'll even sign this
message so I can't back out of the deal. (Note I don't have a US bank
account, but we'll work out some way to get you the money).
> You are making up a whole bunch of story because you've got your
> panties in a bunch for being caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
I've been involved enough in the retro scene for the past 14 years to
not worry too much about the tiny cookie jar that is Graphic Designer.
I know a lot of what happens in the retro scene is formally a copyright
violation, and my conscience is clear.
> I don't think I'm better than anyone, or this software is better than
> any other software out there.
The attitude you're presenting here would indicate otherwise.
> Do you know how much great software has disappeared because the owners
> took it with them when they stopped selling it? Lots.
>
> Guess what, the world moves on.
But that still doesn't mean the world is a better place for people doing
it. Admittedly, Graphic Designer probably isn't going to be the "holy
grail" for the next coming of civilisation, but...
Phil
--
Philip Kendall <[email]>
http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/
25. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Philip Kendall · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:03:
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 11:13:53AM -0400, Al Hartman wrote:
>
> I was thinking something like $9.95
So, for $10 I could buy:
* A fairly mediocre utility for the TS2068
* Ocarina of Time, generally considered to be one of the best games of
all time, for my Wii
That one's a no brainer.
Cheers,
Phil
--
Philip Kendall <[email]>
http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk/
26. Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
Oscar Arthur Koepke · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:57:
Please note there is no serial joystick(These SENTENCE IS WRONG, and never will be!). Plese correct use the terms for these joystick !!
These joystick used in original computer(8bits) that is emulated in these FUSE is not a serial joystick.
The old joystick port used in the original Sinclair ZX Spectrum (and TS2068, MSX, Atari2600[vcs], Atari 800 computer, etc. also) with a DB-9 connector, is world known as "Atari Joystick" compatible; and can not be and will never be connected in a serial connector of a PC(intel=windows) it can burn the PC(computer) or the serial interface.The joystick inteface in PC(intel), these days no longer used, is a analog joystick inteface with a DB-15 connector and can not be adapted in these interface.
Regards,
Oscar
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Fred <[email]> wrote:
From: Fred <[email]>
Subject: Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
To: [email]
Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 9:37 AM
On 06/08/2009, at 21:20, Mark Scheck wrote:
> Windows 7 running fuse, old serial joystick. Didn't even think of usb.
I'm not an expert on the Windows version support for joysticks, but I
think it should work as long as there is a driver installed for the
joystick?
Fred
27. RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Oscar Arthur Koepke · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:47:
FACTS:
Any unit of TS2068 advertise in eBay costs at least US$50.00, plus S&H, adds to a total of US$100.00 each unit. And you(AL) are complaining that you received 2 unit for free. You(AL) think the us postal service works for free...
If Rod would have sent these 2 units to me, i would be very gratfull.
You(AL) are so cheap.....I fell sorry for you!!!
I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50 bucks).
Sorry to know about your complaining.....
OSCAR
--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Rod H <[email]> wrote:
From: Rod H <[email]>
Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
To: [email]
Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 11:27 AM
Correction: it was TWO 2068s I sent you FREE for only the cost of shipping.
To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
From: alhartman6@comcast. net
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:55:15 -0400
Subject: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
None of you seem to understand what ownership means.
It means that Zebra Systems owns it. You don't.
Doesn't matter if the platform is dead, or there's little to no money to
be made from it anymore.
It's the idea that someone else other than the owner of the IP decided
to give it away for free.
All of you have made the same arguments that people always make about
old software for old platforms. None of your arguments are new, and none
change the law.
I've been helpful on this forum. Why would you want to harm me by giving
away my work for free against my wishes, and against the law?
I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068. That
is the "all platforms" I referred to.
I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free" unit
-- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
I'm buying a house and moving soon, but once that's done... I'll get
moving on the project.
I'd appreciate your support in this.
More storage. Better anti-spam and antivirus protection. Hotmail makes it simple.
28. Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
Mark Scheck · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:55:
Okay thanks it looked like the same so I assumed (Yep I know I should know better) ;-)
________________________________
From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]>
To: [email]
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 1:57:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
Please note there is no serial joystick(These SENTENCE IS WRONG, and never will be!). Plese correct use the terms for these joystick !!
These joystick used in original computer(8bits) that is emulated in these FUSE is not a serial joystick.
The old joystick port used in the original Sinclair ZX Spectrum (and TS2068, MSX, Atari2600[vcs] , Atari 800 computer, etc. also) with a DB-9 connector, is world known as "Atari Joystick" compatible; and can not be and will never be connected in a serial connector of a PC(intel=windows) it can burn the PC(computer) or the serial interface.
The joystick inteface in PC(intel), these days no longer used, is a analog joystick inteface with a DB-15 connector and can not be adapted in these interface.
Regards,
Oscar
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Fred <fredm@spamcop. net> wrote:
>From: Fred <fredm@spamcop. net>
>Subject: Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
>To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
>Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 9:37 AM
>
>
>
>
>On 06/08/2009, at 21:20, Mark Scheck wrote:
>> Windows 7 running fuse, old serial joystick. Didn't even think of usb.
>
>I'm not an expert on the Windows version support for joysticks, but I
>think it should work as long as there is a driver installed for the
>joystick?
>
>Fred
>
29. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Mark Scheck · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:57:
Hey there's a 1500 on ebay right now for 50.00 or best offer. Good Luck! Mark
________________________________
From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]>
To: [email]
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:47:13 PM
Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
FACTS:
Any unit of TS2068 advertise in eBay costs at least US$50.00, plus S&H, adds to a total of US$100.00 each unit.
And you(AL) are complaining that you received 2 unit for free.
You(AL) think the us postal service works for free...
If Rod would have sent these 2 units to me, i would be very gratfull.
You(AL) are so cheap.....I fell sorry for you!!!
I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50 bucks).
Sorry to know about your complaining. ....
OSCAR
--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Rod H <rodh64@hotmail. com> wrote:
>From: Rod H <rodh64@hotmail. com>
>Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
>To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
>Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 11:27 AM
>
>
>
>Correction: it was TWO 2068s I sent you FREE for only the cost of shipping.
>
>
________________________________
To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
>From: alhartman6@comcast. net
>Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:55:15 -0400
>Subject: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
>
>
>None of you seem to understand what ownership means.
>
>It means that Zebra Systems owns it. You don't.
>
>Doesn't matter if the platform is dead, or there's little to no money to
>be made from it anymore.
>
>It's the idea that someone else other than the owner of the IP decided
>to give it away for free.
>
>All of you have made the same arguments that people always make about
>old software for old platforms. None of your arguments are new, and none
>change the law.
>
>I've been helpful on this forum. Why would you want to harm me by giving
>away my work for free against my wishes, and against the law?
>
>I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068. That
>is the "all platforms" I referred to.
>
>I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
>support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free" unit
>-- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
>
>I'm buying a house and moving soon, but once that's done... I'll get
>moving on the project.
>
>I'd appreciate your support in this.
>
>
>________________________________
More storage. Better anti-spam and antivirus protection. Hotmail makes it simple.
30. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Mark Scheck · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:59:
Hey Al,
Post the list I'm sure people will buy them. Personally I'm looking for stock market simulator for the 2068.
________________________________
From: Al Hartman <[email]>
To: [email]
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:13:53 AM
Subject: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
$20?
WAY too much. I was thinking something like $9.95 + shipping which would
include a manual, and cassette tape. Stewart gets part of that as a
royalty and part goes for the cost of the tape and manual.
If I sell 10 copies, I get my $50 back and maybe enough for a beer and a
burger.
I also have the Car Sign Designer which will come with a bit of yellow
paper, three car sign holders and a tape/manual for the same price.
I have a couple of other things including some Softsync and Timex 2068
titles for the TS/1000 and 2068. We were thinking $10 for a selection of
10 TS-1000 tapes plus shipping. $5.00 each for the 2068 titles (Zeus
Assembler among them).
I also have some books for both platforms.
I have to inventory what we have left from Zebra's stock and make a
list/webpage.
This is all stuff that isn't available anymore and perhaps some people
would like to have.
I'm not looking to make a million here, just to keep stuff out of the
landfill and maybe get some stuff that people want, but missed buying
into their hands.
It cost us gas and tolls to drive to State College PA to rescue this
stuff, and we don't think it's unreasonable to make a buck or two to pay
for that.
You guys are making up a huge story here that isn't real.
I'm not looking to make a business out of this, or to rip anyone off.
I'm disabled and unemployed and if I can make a couple of dollars to buy
a beer and a burger every so often as a treat... that's about all I'm
looking for.
31. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:40:
On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:47 PM, Oscar Arthur Koepke wrote:
> If Rod would have sent these 2 units to me, i would be very gratfull.
If Rod sent me one, I would be very happy to have one TS2068 working.
I do own one offered by Jack Boatwright but I think it is broken and
he warned me about it (I don't have a way to power it).
I didn't complained as it was only to scan it to show everyone the
difference between a TS2068 and a TC2068 board.
Encarnado, Portugal
32. TS1500
Timex · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:44:
How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
http://timex.comboios.info/timex_hi/ts1500boardhires.jpg
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Mark Scheck wrote:
>
>
> Hey there's a 1500 on ebay right now for 50.00 or best offer. Good
> Luck! Mark
>
> From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]>
> To: [email]
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:47:13 PM
> Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems
> Graphics designer
>
> I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and
> can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international
> shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50 bucks).
>
33. RE: [ts2068] TS1500
Bill Loguidice · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:48:
I don't know if mine is like that. What's the siginificance?
====================================================
Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
Armchair Arcade, Inc.
<http://www.armchairarcade.com/> http://www.armchairarcade.com
A PC Magazine Top 100 Website
====================================================
Authored Books: <http://www.armchairarcade.com/books>
http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
====================================================
LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
====================================================
From: [email] [mailto:[email]] On Behalf Of
Johnny Red (Timex)
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 6:45 PM
To: [email]
Subject: [ts2068] TS1500
How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
http://timex.comboios.info/timex_hi/ts1500boardhires.jpg
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Mark Scheck wrote:
>
>
> Hey there's a 1500 on ebay right now for 50.00 or best offer. Good
> Luck! Mark
>
> From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]
<mailto:oscarkoepke%40yahoo.com> >
> To: [email] <mailto:ts2068%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:47:13 PM
> Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems
> Graphics designer
>
> I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and
> can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international
> shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50 bucks).
>
34. Re: [ts2068] TS1500
Timex · Fri, 7 Aug 2009 00:02:
I think it was the last version of TS1500.
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 6, 2009, at 11:48 PM, Bill Loguidice wrote:
>
>
> I don’t know if mine is like that. What’s the siginificance?
>
> ====================================================
> Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
> Armchair Arcade, Inc.
> http://www.armchairarcade.com
> A PC Magazine Top 100 Website
> ====================================================
> Authored Books: http://www.armchairarcade.com/books
> ====================================================
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice
> ====================================================
>
> From: [email] [mailto:[email]] On
> Behalf Of Johnny Red (Timex)
> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 6:45 PM
> To: [email]
> Subject: [ts2068] TS1500
>
>
> How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
> http://timex.comboios.info/timex_hi/ts1500boardhires.jpg
>
> Encarnado, Portugal
>
> On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Mark Scheck wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hey there's a 1500 on ebay right now for 50.00 or best offer. Good
> > Luck! Mark
> >
> > From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]>
> > To: [email]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:47:13 PM
> > Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems
> > Graphics designer
> >
> > I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and
> > can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international
> > shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50 bucks).
> >
>
>
>
>
35. RE: [ts2068] TS1500
Rod H · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:38:
I have two neither of which look like that:
s/n 0000003871
s/n p028666so model m-338
To: [email]
From: [email]
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:44:40 +0100
Subject: [ts2068] TS1500
How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
http://timex.comboios.info/timex_hi/ts1500boardhires.jpg
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Mark Scheck wrote:
>
>
> Hey there's a 1500 on ebay right now for 50.00 or best offer. Good
> Luck! Mark
>
> From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]>
> To: [email]
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:47:13 PM
> Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems
> Graphics designer
>
> I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and
> can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international
> shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50 bucks).
>
_________________________________________________________________
More storage. Better anti-spam and antivirus protection. Hotmail makes it simple.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671357
36. Re: [ts2068] TS1500
Oscar Arthur Koepke · Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:00:
Yes there is 2 ts1500 in eBay right now.
But none of these 2 are willing to ship it to brazil only to USA.
I have askey and almost begged for it, but no positive answer.
Oscar
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Johnny Red (Timex) <[email]> wrote:
From: Johnny Red (Timex) <[email]>
Subject: [ts2068] TS1500
To: [email]
Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:44 PM
How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
http://timex. comboios. info/timex_ hi/ts1500boardhi res.jpg
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Mark Scheck wrote:
>
>
> Hey there's a 1500 on ebay right now for 50.00 or best offer. Good
> Luck! Mark
>
> From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <oscarkoepke@ yahoo.com>
> To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:47:13 PM
> Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems
> Graphics designer
>
> I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and
> can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international
> shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50 bucks).
>
37. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Bill · Fri, 07 Aug 2009 04:08
Al,
> None of you seem to understand what ownership means.
You don't seem to understand what "community" and business smarts are. I looked up the Zebra Systems web site, and it proudly presents a page of ZX81 resources, including links to the software archives you so righteously oppose. So to the extent you're associated with Zebra Systems, you've benefitted from this practice already.
It's pretty much common knowledge the only worth these wares have right now are for nostalgia. You can generally make sales from original manuals, original cassettes, and hardware -- for their collection value. They are not being employed for "real" work because contemporary software and hardware is so much cheaper, efficient, reliable and more powerful. The only possible exception are people who are re-purposing the hardware for things like robot controllers, in which case they are writing their own software for it.
Let me clue you in that people are here, putting the effort into archives and web pages, etc., as a "labor of love" and not to get rich. It might be hard for you to understand this, since your own perspective and motivations seem to be quite narrower. But I think I'm safe in saying people are spending far more money than they are getting from this, out of a desire to advance something bigger than themselves.
> I've been helpful on this forum. Why would you want to harm me by giving
> away my work for free against my wishes, and against the law?
You're the one harming yourself.
You are the one who chose the forum and tone of this discussion. You could have written the original poster off-list and politely requested it not be included in the archive. Or, more graciously, offered to help so long as you had attribution. Instead, you sent a notice to the entire list and made the poor guy out to be some kind of thug. His only mistake was assuming that your software deserved a spot in the archive. So don't whine about losing an argument you began.
Second, as I've mentioned previously, putting your title in an archive could only have helped you. You seem to have this idea that this is analogous to someone putting Adobe Creative Suite up on a file server. It isn't the same thing at all. Whatever high opinion you have of your work, it's simply WORTHLESS today. Nobody will use it for graphics work. What they MIGHT do is turn on their 2068 or emulator and say to their sons or grandkids, "Hey, before Facebook and Twitter, this is what graphics used to look like, and we spend 40 hours to get this result."
> I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068. That
> is the "all platforms" I referred to.
You can TRY to sell it, but I highly doubt you'll make any money off it. There might be a couple people who would support you before this nasty scene, and it would have been to express gratitude for a contribution you made to the community. But after this, I know I won't.
And, did it occur to you that if there weren't people making these archives available, there might not even BE groups for 2068 and CoCo users to potentially sell your software to?
> I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
> support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free" unit
> -- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
Wow, did you expect the guy to send you stuff on his own dime? And you're trying to recoup $50 you spent a YEAR ago? Come on... for grownups, that's lunch money.
> I'd appreciate your support in this.
Don't count on it, after we've seen what your support for us is like. You can take your "ownership" and see how far it gets you.
38. Re: TS1500
James Diffendaffer · Fri, 07 Aug 2009 05:31
No solder mask on the top side of the board?
--- In [email], "Bill Loguidice" <bill@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know if mine is like that. What's the siginificance?
<snip>
> From: [email] [mailto:[email]] On Behalf Of
> Johnny Red (Timex)
> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 6:45 PM
> To: [email]
> Subject: [ts2068] TS1500
>
>
>
>
>
> How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
> http://timex.comboios.info/timex_hi/ts1500boardhires.jpg
>
> Encarnado, Portugal
39. Re: [ts2068] TS1500
Mark Scheck · Fri, 7 Aug 2009 04:37:
I think I know the answer, I've shipped electronics to Brazil and it never arrived. Maybe someone on the list could bid and ship?
________________________________
From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]>
To: [email]
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 1:00:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ts2068] TS1500
Yes there is 2 ts1500 in eBay right now.
But none of these 2 are willing to ship it to brazil only to USA.
I have askey and almost begged for it, but no positive answer.
Oscar
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Johnny Red (Timex) <timex.pt@mail. telepac.pt> wrote:
>From: Johnny Red (Timex) <timex.pt@mail. telepac.pt>
>Subject: [ts2068] TS1500
>To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
>Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:44 PM
>
>
>
>How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
>http://timex. comboios. info/timex_ hi/ts1500boardhi res.jpg
>
>Encarnado, Portugal
>
>On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Mark Scheck wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hey there's a 1500 on ebay right now for 50.00 or best offer. Good
>> Luck! Mark
>>
>> From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <oscarkoepke@ yahoo.com>
>> To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
>> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:47:13 PM
>> Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems
>> Graphics designer
>>
>> I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and
>> can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international
>> shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50 bucks).
>>
>
>
40. Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
Fred · Fri, 7 Aug 2009 23:06:
You can use those type of joysticks with Fuse with a USB adapter like
this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Atari-USB-Controller-Adapter_W0QQitemZ220442024097QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_Games_Accessories?hash=item33535e58a1&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14
Fred
On 07/08/2009, at 7:55, Mark Scheck wrote:
> Okay thanks it looked like the same so I assumed (Yep I know I
> should know better) ;-)
>
> From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]>
> To: [email]
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 1:57:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
>
> Please note there is no serial joystick(These SENTENCE IS WRONG, and
> never will be!). Plese correct use the terms for these joystick !!
>
> These joystick used in original computer(8bits) that is emulated in
> these FUSE is not a serial joystick.
>
> The old joystick port used in the original Sinclair ZX Spectrum (and
> TS2068, MSX, Atari2600[vcs] , Atari 800 computer, etc. also) with a
> DB-9 connector, is world known as "Atari Joystick" compatible; and
> can not be and will never be connected in a serial connector of a
> PC(intel=windows) it can burn the PC(computer) or the serial
> interface.
> The joystick inteface in PC(intel), these days no longer used, is a
> analog joystick inteface with a DB-15 connector and can not be
> adapted in these interface.
>
> Regards,
>
> Oscar
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Fred <fredm@spamcop. net> wrote:
>
> From: Fred <fredm@spamcop. net>
> Subject: Re: [ts2068] Fuse serial joysticks?
> To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 9:37 AM
>
>
>
> On 06/08/2009, at 21:20, Mark Scheck wrote:
> > Windows 7 running fuse, old serial joystick. Didn't even think of
> usb.
>
> I'm not an expert on the Windows version support for joysticks, but I
> think it should work as long as there is a driver installed for the
> joystick?
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
41. Re: [ts2068] TS1500
Oscar Arthur Koepke · Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:27:
In Brazil the customs like to charge over eletronics, but old computers like these if under US$50 they let it pass without charging.
The real trick is to ship it telling is a old keyboard(not really a lie),if possible, and thell the value is like US$20.00. The thelling is a Gift does not work at all, the customs don't like these gift story....and they scans and take a x-ray of everthing that comes in, almost if we were on war.
I have bought my TS2068 from USA in eBay for R$28,00+S&H and it arriver safelly.
I have bought many Spectrums(I think 4, 2 speccy 48kb and 2 speccy 128k +2[one grey and other black]) from eBauy.co.uk and all of them arrived with no problems, only teak like 3 to 4 weeks to arrive, but none had to use the trik I told earlier because they really cost lower then US$50 or GBP 33.00(pounds).
If the value is bigger the customs here in Brazil charge over 160% taxes or they apreend(take it away withou telling you about it) the merchandise.
Oscar
On Fri, 8/7/09, Mark Scheck <[email]> wrote:
From: Mark Scheck <[email]>
Subject: Re: [ts2068] TS1500
To: [email]
Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:37 AM
I think I know the answer, I've shipped electronics to Brazil and it never arrived. Maybe someone on the list could bid and ship?
From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <oscarkoepke@ yahoo.com>
To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 1:00:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ts2068] TS1500
Yes there is 2 ts1500 in eBay right now.
But none of these 2 are willing to ship it to brazil only to USA.
I have askey and almost begged for it, but no positive answer.
Oscar
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Johnny Red (Timex) <timex.pt@mail. telepac.pt> wrote:
From: Johnny Red (Timex) <timex.pt@mail. telepac.pt>
Subject: [ts2068] TS1500
To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:44 PM
How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
http://timex. comboios. info/timex_ hi/ts1500boardhi res.jpg
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Mark Scheck wrote:
>
>
> Hey there's a 1500 on ebay right now for 50.00 or best offer. Good
> Luck! Mark
>
> From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <oscarkoepke@ yahoo.com>
> To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:47:13 PM
> Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems
> Graphics designer
>
> I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and
> can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international
> shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50
bucks).
>
42. RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Richard Burt · Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:44:
Hi Oscar, I have a TS1500 that I will sell to you for $10.00 Canadian, plus the cost to ship to you. I have no way to test the computer, but it worked when I packed it away, its just the computer only, and a power adaptor. Rick [email]
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]> wrote:
From: Oscar Arthur Koepke <[email]>
Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
To: [email]
Received: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 2:47 PM
FACTS:
Any unit of TS2068 advertise in eBay costs at least US$50.00, plus S&H, adds to a total of US$100.00 each unit.
And you(AL) are complaining that you received 2 unit for free.
You(AL) think the us postal service works for free...
If Rod would have sent these 2 units to me, i would be very gratfull.
You(AL) are so cheap.....I fell sorry for you!!!
I am tring to buy a TS1500 for less than US$100(total with S&H) and can't find it....for over 3 years now in eBay(international shipping to BRAZIL gets near 50 bucks).
Sorry to know about your complaining. ....
OSCAR
--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Rod H <rodh64@hotmail. com> wrote:
From: Rod H <rodh64@hotmail. com>
Subject: RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 11:27 AM
Correction: it was TWO 2068s I sent you FREE for only the cost of shipping.
To: ts2068@yahoogroups. com
From: alhartman6@comcast. net
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:55:15 -0400
Subject: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
None of you seem to understand what ownership means.
It means that Zebra Systems owns it. You don't.
Doesn't matter if the platform is dead, or there's little to no money to
be made from it anymore.
It's the idea that someone else other than the owner of the IP decided
to give it away for free.
All of you have made the same arguments that people always make about
old software for old platforms. None of your arguments are new, and none
change the law.
I've been helpful on this forum. Why would you want to harm me by giving
away my work for free against my wishes, and against the law?
I do intend to sell the software on the Tandy Coco and the TS-2068. That
is the "all platforms" I referred to.
I negotiated those rights with Stewart last year. I obtained a 2068 in
support of doing that (Cost me over $50.00 in shipping for a "free" unit
-- I'd like to recover that expense if I can).
I'm buying a house and moving soon, but once that's done... I'll get
moving on the project.
I'd appreciate your support in this.
More storage. Better anti-spam and antivirus protection. Hotmail makes it simple.
__________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
43. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:42
I don't want to get into a thing with Rod, but....
1. USPS Priority mail shipping was $11 for up to 70lbs. $50 for about
5lbs on 2068 computers was too much.
2. It was my understanding that for $50, I was getting a lot more stuff
than 2 bare 2068 computers. I didn't even get power supplies with them.
I would have paid something for the units plus shipping.
Rod offered them for free. But... I didn't get what I was expecting.
I shipped 20 Power Mac 7600 computers for $20 ea. Each computer weighs
10x more than the pair of 2068's.
I'm glad to have them (I traded one away for a power supply and some
other stuff).
But, I wouldn't have bought one except for needing it to make new tapes
and test old ones.
I've been trying to get Tom interested in making twister boards and
Spectrum Emulator Cartridges since we found a few bare boards in Zebra's
old stock that we could use to make new boards from. He's busy on other
projects right now, but we might be able to get these done on the cheap
for everybody.
The main thing about making the twister is to find connectors we can cut
down for the 2068 expansion bus.
We even have the prototype Super Twister which has the Parallel port,
RGB output and Spectrum Emulator on board. If we could fix the problems
with the too thin traces on the board layout and make it work, wouldn't
that be cool?
I was pushing for the Super Twister back in the day, and Stewart didn't
think it was worth relaying out the artwork to fix the problems with it.
I also pushed for the Zebra FDD to have 3.5" or 5.25" drives due to more
available media at lower cost and was voted down because Timex Portugal
wanted to sell the 3" drives.
We had the Coco Greeting Card Designer (the precursor to the Graphics
Designer) done, and all I had to do was write the manual... Stewart
didn't think it would sell and wanted to drop the product. Zebra lived
on that product in the Timex and Coco versions for years.
I specced out Zebra Terminal because the Westridge software was so awful.
We were working on a Mac like Wordprocessor for the Timex and Coco based
on the Graphics Designer engine and after I left, they dropped it. The
prototype software was wonderful, you all would have loved it.
I wrote parts of the TS 1000 and 2068 Zebra talker software. THAT was fun!
You guys don't know how much I miss those days, and how much I'd like to
try to recapture even a small part of them.
Those were days when computers were fun! Before the days of viruses,
bloatware and stuff...
I had a tricked out ZX-81 at Zebra that you can see in the video on
Youtube that was amazing!
John Sampson who is in the videos. had a TS-1000 with an Oliger disk
system, Color Graphics board, Stringy Floppy, Smith Corona Daisywheel
printer, Memowriter cartridge and more... He had a heck of a system.
I think I made a real contribution to the hobby, and to the Timex world.
I just would like supplement my disability income and keep some stuuf
out of the landfill.
Is that so wrong?
Is it so wrong that we wrote the fricken thing and would like the
courtesy of being asked first before it was being added to an FTP site?
It's not like you couldn't find Stewart to ask him...
Geez!
When I spoke to Stewart, he was ok with it. But agreed with me that it
would have been nice to have been asked for permission.
You who have posted about this in negative terms are getting carried away.
Thanks to those who either posted publicly or privately kind words.
44. RE: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Rod H · Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:11:
I don't want to get into a thing with Rod, but....
...and I don't want to get into a thing either but let's tell the rest of the story
1. USPS Priority mail shipping was $11 for up to 70lbs. $50 for about 5lbs on 2068 computers was too much.
...not from Canada. You only paid the UPS charge. Nothing more. I sent you a scan of the waybill and you grumbled about charges that were not in my control. My 2068s and my time were given to you and you complained.
2. It was my understanding that for $50, I was getting a lot more stuff than 2 bare 2068 computers. I didn't even get power supplies with them.
...perhaps so. I did describe the various add-ons that came with the 2068s: LarKen RAMboard, LarKen DD interface, printer interface and other stuff. Your eyes must have lit up when you thought you were getting all this stuff for free. Sorry you were so disappointed when you ONLY received two FREE 2068s.(I remember I was thrilled when I got my first one...that I paid for) You asked for the second one so you and your friend could work on projects together. Didn't selling the second one cover the UPS charge? Why are you still grumbling? No power supplies were sent to save on weight. Imagine the shipping charge with power supplies! You had a 2068 that went kaput, or so I was led to believe, so where did the PS go?
I would have paid something for the units plus shipping. Rod offered them for free. But... I didn't get what I was expecting.
...I don't understand. Are you complaining about not paying for something? Or was FREE not good enough because you were expecting more for free?
Remember: when you grumbled about the UPS charge I said forget the charge and accept the 2068s as my gift. They had been given to me and I thought passing them on might help the TS community. You said "a deal is a deal" and eventually sent me the UPS charge. I don't remember a "thank you".
You attitude in this and other things is so petty and selfish that it is destructive to the very intent of this group. I thank you for your contributions in past years and now say be off. I've had enough of this...and you.
_._,___
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in the loop and chat with friends, right from your inbox!
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671354
45. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
zxbruno · Sat, 08 Aug 2009 08:03
--- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
> Is it so wrong that we wrote the fricken thing and would like the
> courtesy of being asked first before it was being added to an FTP site?
Who said things were already being added or sent to a website? I'm still working on preservation, and I've always tried to contact authors and ask for permission. In the past 2 years I've obtained at least 4 permissions to scan and post copyrighted material online. As someone mentioned here, it's a labor of love. I gain nothing from it except a thank you, and that is fine by me. I've spent my own money and my time trying to get these things preserved, and thanks to many people who helped me we have recovered important documentation, software and hardware that was getting rotten or oxidized attics and storage rooms. I think you misinterpreted my original post and thought we were going to share it with everyone else right away...
Did you forget the e-mails we've exchanged before? I thought that by now you would know a little bit more about me and understand why I do what I do. You told me before that you're disabled, don't have the time to do a lot of things, etc. Well, I was trying to help! Many Zebra System things have been lost in time and you know it. You were the one who told me that your memory isn't what it used to be anymore and that certain things are lost and impossible to figure out. I'm trying to change that.
> It's not like you couldn't find Stewart to ask him...
> would have been nice to have been asked for permission.
I did. When you talk to him, ask him why he never replies to my e-mails...
I won't post something online if I don't have permission, but I'm going to continue the preservation effort. It's the right thing to do. I hope one day you'll have a change of heart.
I'm sad but I'll get over it. Time to move on.
> I've been trying to get Tom interested in making twister boards and
> Spectrum Emulator Cartridges since we found a few bare boards in Zebra's
> old stock that we could use to make new boards from. He's busy on other
> projects right now, but we might be able to get these done on the cheap
> for everybody.
>
> The main thing about making the twister is to find connectors we can cut
> down for the 2068 expansion bus.
>
> We even have the prototype Super Twister which has the Parallel port,
> RGB output and Spectrum Emulator on board.
My own twister board (NOT a Zebra design!) is already in the U.K. pending replication and will soon be available for sale.
You cannot sell cartridges with Spectrum ROMs on them. But wait... you did sell them in the past right? I'm assuming you got written permission from Sinclair...
46. Re: TS1500
zniedzwiedz · Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:04
--- In [email], "Johnny Red (Timex)" <timex.pt@...> wrote:
>
> How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
> http://timex.comboios.info/timex_hi/ts1500boardhires.jpg
I have another version:
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/ts1500/20090808IMG_7485.JPG
47. Re: [ts2068] Re: TS1500
Timex · Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:15
Your TS1500 have 8 RAM chips. Mine have 2.
Probably my 1500 is the last board design made by Timex of Portugal.
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 9, 2009, at 11:04 PM, zniedzwiedz wrote:
> --- In [email], "Johnny Red (Timex)" <timex.pt@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> How many of you, TS1500 owners, have a TS1500 with a board like this?
>> http://timex.comboios.info/timex_hi/ts1500boardhires.jpg
>
> I have another version:
> http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/
> ts1500/20090808IMG_7485.JPG
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
48. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
cheveron · Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:23
--- In [email], "Johnny Red (Timex)" <timex.pt@...> wrote:
>Sad that we don't know yet about Timex 2068 ROMs...
We do. The copyright is either owned entirely by Amstrad or jointly with Timex. Ages ago I emailed Timex to clear this up and was told that although they didn't know which was the case, that if they did own any of the copyright they had no objections to anyone distributing it with the same provisos as the Amstrad copyright code. Ergo, TS2068 emulation is legal.
49. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
cheveron · Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:39
--- In [email], "zxbruno" <zxspectrum128@...> wrote:
> You cannot sell cartridges with Spectrum ROMs on them. But wait... you did sell them in the past right? I'm assuming you got written permission from Sinclair...
Did Zebra sell their own Emu carts or just re-sell Timex-Portugal ones. I guess the super-twister would have been a copyright violation but as pointed out it was never sold. On the other hand the ZebraOS64 cart contains an almost complete copy of the TS2068 firmware.
50. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
zxbruno · Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:29
He was talking so much about copyright violations... but Zebra Systems sold cartridges with the Sinclair rom and now he says he wanted to sell more? I hope he didn't do the same thing he condemns...
My e-mails to Al and Stewart remain unanswered so I'm not going to worry about Zebra Systems anymore. There are other things to work on.
--- In [email], "cheveron@..." <cheveron@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email], "zxbruno" <zxspectrum128@> wrote:
>
> > You cannot sell cartridges with Spectrum ROMs on them. But wait... you did sell them in the past right? I'm assuming you got written permission from Sinclair...
>
> Did Zebra sell their own Emu carts or just re-sell Timex-Portugal ones. I guess the super-twister would have been a copyright violation but as pointed out it was never sold. On the other hand the ZebraOS64 cart contains an almost complete copy of the TS2068 firmware.
>
51. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:38
Zebra sold Spectrum Emulator Cartridges with ROMs purchased from Timex
Portugal. We sold both Timex Portugal cartridges and our own board
design. Zebra had licenses from Timex Portugal to sell OS64 and Spectrum
Emulator Carts. The Super Twister was never a Timex or Sinclair product.
It was a reference design in the 2068 Tech Manual whose purpose was to
allow interfacing the FDD Systems to the 2068 Computers. No license was
required to sell it or any twister product. There was nothing
proprietary or copyrightable in the design. We laid out our own board in
any event.
The TC-2048/2068 Computers didn't need twisters as they had a Spectrum
expansion bus.
Al
52. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:53
>> My e-mails to Al and Stewart remain unanswered so I'm not going to
worry about Zebra Systems anymore. There are other things to work on. <<
I answered publicly on this forum. At this time, I'm not willing to give
permission to archive my work to people who didn't have the common
courtesy to ask me first before assuming they could do it, AND who think
they have the right to argue with me and tell me how worthless it is. If
it's so worthless, there's no need to preserve it. Is there?
Insulting someone, their work and then making excuses about why you did
it is a poor way to ask a favor.
When there's no way to find or contact a copyright owner, I understand
preserving the software.
When the copyright owner has a website, e-mail address and is easily
contactable... there's laws to follow if not just having respect and
common courtesy.
All in all, I'm finding the board members who have posted about this
thread to be quite rude.
53. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:01
On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Al Hartman wrote:
> The TC-2048/2068 Computers didn't need twisters as they had a Spectrum
> expansion bus.
>
> Al
Which was the most smart move for Timex computers.
TMX Portugal today don't want to ear about Timex Computer, so I
believe Zebra Systems no longer have any valid license about Timex or
Sinclair ROMs.
They don't reply to any of my emails about them.
They only replied when I asked them if a old warehouse was their old
computer assembly lines.
Encarnado, Portugal
54. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
cheveron · Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:11
--- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
>
> Zebra sold Spectrum Emulator Cartridges with ROMs purchased from Timex
> Portugal. We sold both Timex Portugal cartridges and our own board
> design. Zebra had licenses from Timex Portugal to sell OS64 and Spectrum
> Emulator Carts. The Super Twister was never a Timex or Sinclair product.
> It was a reference design in the 2068 Tech Manual whose purpose was to
> allow interfacing the FDD Systems to the 2068 Computers. No license was
> required to sell it or any twister product. There was nothing
> proprietary or copyrightable in the design. We laid out our own board in
> any event.
>
> The TC-2048/2068 Computers didn't need twisters as they had a Spectrum
> expansion bus.
>
> Al
>
While I'm sure Zebra acted in good faith, the truth is that Timex had no right to grant those licenses as Sinclair had no right to license the ROM to Timex in the first place. Nine Tiles, the copyright owner wasn't paid until Amstrad bought the rights off them in 1986.
55. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:01
Encardo,
I really liked the Timex Portugal Computers. I think they are what the
Timex Sinclair units should have been.
The Spectrum Bus would have made a huge difference in that a lot of
Spectrum Peripherals could have been sold for the units to the advantage
of all.
Stewart once visited Timex Portugal and toured the factory. He said they
had special computers that you would plug a ZX-81 or 2068 into, and it
would test all the functions and let you know if the unit was good or bad.
Someday, I hope to own one of the TC-2068 units. Zebra had some, but I
think Stewart sold them off years ago.
I didn't see one in the warehouse when we were emptying it. We
dumpstered about a thousand ZX-81 boards. It just wasn't worth the time
or effort to test and fix them. Most were missing ULA and ROM chips anyway.
I sure hated that we had to do that.
There are landfills out in California where Lisa Computers and Apple
Newtons are buried. Such a shame.
Who knows what is in landfills in Portugal.
Al
56. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Al Hartman · Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:03
>> While I'm sure Zebra acted in good faith, the truth is that Timex
had no right to grant those licenses as Sinclair had no right to license
the ROM to Timex in the first place. Nine Tiles, the copyright owner
wasn't paid until Amstrad bought the rights off them in 1986. <<
We were selling the Spectrum Emulators and such AFTER 1986. So, I'm sure
all the licenses were in order.
Al
57. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:07
On Aug 20, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Al Hartman wrote:
> Encardo,
>
> I really liked the Timex Portugal Computers. I think they are what the
> Timex Sinclair units should have been.
True. They are the best from Timex. Portuguese engineers really did
it well: solve TS incompatibilities.
> The Spectrum Bus would have made a huge difference in that a lot of
> Spectrum Peripherals could have been sold for the units to the
> advantage
> of all.
>
> Stewart once visited Timex Portugal and toured the factory. He said
> they
> had special computers that you would plug a ZX-81 or 2068 into, and it
> would test all the functions and let you know if the unit was good
> or bad.
They didn't call it computers, they called it tester boards. And yes,
they did all tests.
By the time, 1 of 1000 TC boards had defects. Can you imagine? 1 in a
1000?
> Someday, I hope to own one of the TC-2068 units. Zebra had some, but I
> think Stewart sold them off years ago.
I own 3.
One I damaged in a accident, as I think I disconnected the FDD
interface with it on (2068s don't have a led like 2048s). It only
works with 16K RAM and Spectrum cartridge.
The other have all chips on sockets including the SLCD chip.
The 3rd is a black one, very beautiful.
> I didn't see one in the warehouse when we were emptying it. We
> dumpstered about a thousand ZX-81 boards. It just wasn't worth the
> time
> or effort to test and fix them. Most were missing ULA and ROM chips
> anyway.
> I sure hated that we had to do that.
>
> There are landfills out in California where Lisa Computers and Apple
> Newtons are buried. Such a shame.
>
> Who knows what is in landfills in Portugal.
I could say that about the missing TC3256 that was in production when
Timex Computer production was transfered to Dundee in Scotland. But I
think there was only a few made and given to Timex workers. All parts
that haven´t been sold in Portugal gone to Scotland... where Timex
Computer Technology sadly died.
Encarnado, Portugal
58. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
cheveron · Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:50
--- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
>
> >> While I'm sure Zebra acted in good faith, the truth is that Timex
> had no right to grant those licenses as Sinclair had no right to license
> the ROM to Timex in the first place. Nine Tiles, the copyright owner
> wasn't paid until Amstrad bought the rights off them in 1986. <<
>
> We were selling the Spectrum Emulators and such AFTER 1986. So, I'm sure
> all the licenses were in order.
For that to be the case Timex Portugal would have had to obtain a license to sub-license the ROM from Amstrad. It's certainly possible that this happened as Amstrad never sold the Spectrum in Portugal.
I'd still like to know some more about the modfied TC2068 design sold in Poland as the Unipolbrit UK2086 from 1986 on. That would seem to support the case that Timex Portugal did a deal with Amstrad, but of course there's no-one around from Timex Portugal to ask. :(
59. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Jack Boatwright · Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:49
here's an interesting tidbit... http://www.worldofspectrum.org/timex/poland.htm ... that may add topic to this discussion
----- Original Message -----
From: [email]
To: [email]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:50 AM
Subject: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
--- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
>
> >> While I'm sure Zebra acted in good faith, the truth is that Timex
> had no right to grant those licenses as Sinclair had no right to license
> the ROM to Timex in the first place. Nine Tiles, the copyright owner
> wasn't paid until Amstrad bought the rights off them in 1986. <<
>
> We were selling the Spectrum Emulators and such AFTER 1986. So, I'm sure
> all the licenses were in order.
For that to be the case Timex Portugal would have had to obtain a license to sub-license the ROM from Amstrad. It's certainly possible that this happened as Amstrad never sold the Spectrum in Portugal.
I'd still like to know some more about the modfied TC2068 design sold in Poland as the Unipolbrit UK2086 from 1986 on. That would seem to support the case that Timex Portugal did a deal with Amstrad, but of course there's no-one around from Timex Portugal to ask. :(
60. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:00
On Aug 21, 2009, at 9:50 AM, [email] wrote:
> --- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
>>
>>>> While I'm sure Zebra acted in good faith, the truth is that Timex
>> had no right to grant those licenses as Sinclair had no right to
>> license
>> the ROM to Timex in the first place. Nine Tiles, the copyright owner
>> wasn't paid until Amstrad bought the rights off them in 1986. <<
>>
>> We were selling the Spectrum Emulators and such AFTER 1986. So,
>> I'm sure
>> all the licenses were in order.
>
> For that to be the case Timex Portugal would have had to obtain a
> license to sub-license the ROM from Amstrad. It's certainly
> possible that this happened as Amstrad never sold the Spectrum in
> Portugal.
Amstrad may not directly sold the ZX Spectrum in Portugal but Triudus
sold many ZX Spectrum 128K +2/+2A/+2B/+3. They sold too the Sinclair
PC200!
All my Amstrad ZX Spectrum's were bought in Portugal (including my
PC200) from people who bought then from Triudus.
I may ask to Triudus if someone there still knows the deal with
Amstrad or maybe better to ask Amstrad directly how the deal was for
Portugal.
> I'd still like to know some more about the modfied TC2068 design
> sold in Poland as the Unipolbrit UK2086 from 1986 on. That would
> seem to support the case that Timex Portugal did a deal with
> Amstrad, but of course there's no-one around from Timex Portugal to
> ask. :(
There are some people but no way to contact them.
Encarnado, Portugal
61. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:07
Hi Jack,
It adds little info and they missed the FDD3 disk system. Exact
numbers are unknown.
I think UK2086 ROM was modified in Poland, not in Portugal. The same
for the hardware (removal of a joystick port to add a weird printer
port. The best person to confirm this was Jarek but he vanished...
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 21, 2009, at 3:49 PM, Jack Boatwright wrote:
>
>
> here's an interesting tidbit... http://www.worldofspectrum.org/
> timex/poland.htm ... that may add topic to this discussion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [email]
> To: [email]
> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:50 AM
> Subject: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems
> Graphics designer
>
> --- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
> >
> > >> While I'm sure Zebra acted in good faith, the truth is that Timex
> > had no right to grant those licenses as Sinclair had no right to
> license
> > the ROM to Timex in the first place. Nine Tiles, the copyright owner
> > wasn't paid until Amstrad bought the rights off them in 1986. <<
> >
> > We were selling the Spectrum Emulators and such AFTER 1986. So,
> I'm sure
> > all the licenses were in order.
>
> For that to be the case Timex Portugal would have had to obtain a
> license to sub-license the ROM from Amstrad. It's certainly
> possible that this happened as Amstrad never sold the Spectrum in
> Portugal.
>
> I'd still like to know some more about the modfied TC2068 design
> sold in Poland as the Unipolbrit UK2086 from 1986 on. That would
> seem to support the case that Timex Portugal did a deal with
> Amstrad, but of course there's no-one around from Timex Portugal to
> ask. :(
>
>
>
>
>
62. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:50
Bajtek was a great magazine.
Too bad I can't read polish...
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 21, 2009, at 11:17 PM, zniedzwiedz wrote:
> --- In [email], "Jack Boatwright" <jboatno4@...> wrote:
>>
>> here's an interesting tidbit... http://www.worldofspectrum.org/
>> timex/poland.htm ... that may add topic to this discussion
>
> 800000 units? I don't think so. In interview at pages 3 and 4
> http://atarionline.pl/biblioteka/czasopisma/Bajtek/
> Bajtek_1986_11.djvu there is a table with quantities in that deal,
> i.e. TC2048 - 5000.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
63. Re: [ts2068] Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
Timex · Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:57
He never replyed to me when I tryed to buy from him a TI-of-TTL...
Encarnado, Portugal
On Aug 22, 2009, at 12:18 AM, zniedzwiedz wrote:
> --- In [email], "Johnny Red (Timex)" <timex.pt@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jack,
>>
>> It adds little info and they missed the FDD3 disk system. Exact
>> numbers are unknown.
>
> See
> http://atarionline.pl/biblioteka/czasopisma/Bajtek/
> Bajtek_1986_11.djvu pages 3 and 4.
>
>> I think UK2086 ROM was modified in Poland, not in Portugal. The same
>> for the hardware (removal of a joystick port to add a weird printer
>> port. The best person to confirm this was Jarek but he vanished...
>
> ? I can see him on IM and his web page is online: http://
> 8bit.yarek.pl/computer/zx.uk2086/index.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
64. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
zniedzwiedz · Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:17
--- In [email], "Jack Boatwright" <jboatno4@...> wrote:
>
> here's an interesting tidbit... http://www.worldofspectrum.org/timex/poland.htm ... that may add topic to this discussion
800000 units? I don't think so. In interview at pages 3 and 4 http://atarionline.pl/biblioteka/czasopisma/Bajtek/Bajtek_1986_11.djvu there is a table with quantities in that deal, i.e. TC2048 - 5000.
65. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
zniedzwiedz · Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:03
--- In [email], "cheveron@..." <cheveron@...> wrote:
>
> I'd still like to know some more about the modfied TC2068 design sold in Poland as the Unipolbrit UK2086 from 1986 on. That would seem to support the case that Timex Portugal did a deal with Amstrad, but of course there's no-one around from Timex Portugal to ask. :(
>
It was (UK2086) the first computer I touched (in the summer '86 computer course). It was used as ZX Spectrum clone *only* (with this cartridge: http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_uk2086/20090806IMG_7396.JPG ) and I didn't see any article about it's native mode in polish computer magazines.
I have some Unipolbrit devices now: UK2086 (dead), FDD 3" (16K version in one ugly metal box) and FDD interfaces. Some interface has copyright string change IIRC (Unipolbrit instead Timex). I didn't see any Amstrad copyright on any Timex/Unipolbrit computer or part.
66. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
zniedzwiedz · Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:18
--- In [email], "Johnny Red (Timex)" <timex.pt@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> It adds little info and they missed the FDD3 disk system. Exact
> numbers are unknown.
See
http://atarionline.pl/biblioteka/czasopisma/Bajtek/Bajtek_1986_11.djvu pages 3 and 4.
> I think UK2086 ROM was modified in Poland, not in Portugal. The same
> for the hardware (removal of a joystick port to add a weird printer
> port. The best person to confirm this was Jarek but he vanished...
? I can see him on IM and his web page is online: http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/zx.uk2086/index.html
67. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
zniedzwiedz · Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:24
--- In [email], "Johnny Red (Timex)" <timex.pt@...> wrote:
>
> He never replyed to me when I tryed to buy from him a TI-of-TTL...
>
> Encarnado, Portugal
Yes, it's a tough task ;-) I've try 2 times and it didn't happened. Later he said that he had chapter of hardware accidents, lost his e-mails etc.
68. Re: Some news. Also looking for Zebra Systems Graphics designer
zniedzwiedz · Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:40
--- In [email], "Johnny Red (Timex)" <timex.pt@...> wrote:
>
> Bajtek was a great magazine.
I agree.
> Too bad I can't read polish...
>
> Encarnado, Portugal
Let me type this article, translate via google and make some quick corrections for you ;-)
Bajtek 11/86, page 3 and 4
WHAT ABOUT TOMORROW
BUY WHAT WE CAN AFFORD, WHAT DO OTHERS OFFER TO US, OR... BUY NOTHING
Compromise
Interview with WOJCIECH SZANTER - Director of the Executive Board of the Central Scout Supply Depot.
- Five thousand computers Timex - TC 2048, three and a half thousand joysticks "Quickshot" fifteen thousand 3" disk DS/DD, one thousand computers SVI-738 production Spectravideo - is only part of the equipment imported by the Central Scout Supply Depot. Is this the first transaction of this kind in our market?
- It does not matter whether we were the first. Transactions related to the guarantee and maintenance of equipment, provide "Baltona" and "Pewex". Market vendor is "Apina" from Zielona Góra or Dom Handlowy Nauki PAN. Conversely, if it comes to shopping public - is really, in terms of size this is the first of this type of transaction.
- Attemptes to bring the hardware, a long-lasting. Various rumors circulated about the quality of equipment to buy, its price, quantity. Finally, there was finance to the first agreement - for the glory at the Central Scout Supply Depot. Could you reveal the backstage, and came to the conclusion of the transaction? There are many companies with a better reputation than Spectravideo or Timex.
- Despite the appearances could not be so interesting. But I would not talk about them, because as a merchant applies confidentiality me - at least in import transactions. Just these companies have given us the most favorable conditions. Us - that is, the International Trade Association DAL - Center, who made the purchases. The final conclusion of the contract was preceded by a number of surveys, consultations, market research. Domestic producers, as suppliers of equipment for Central Scout Supply Depot were unattainable, if only because of the offered prices and low volume production. Also, do not come to effect the merger of certain businesses Polish community abroad - for the very care for their own financial interests. So we began discussions with the companies "Metronex"and DAL. "Metronex" can bring only computers on a compensatory transaction. Only DAL had the opportunity to make a purchase.
After a number of range offers from us and after consultation of foreign price we decided to deal with Timex and Spectravideo. Although contractors were also among the Amstrad and Commodore. However, due to the fact that these companies are selling computers in stores "Pewex" and "Baltona", we had to give up their proposals. Thus, taking into account our ability to purchase and the possibility of sales on the domestic market is that we led the hardware.
- So, success?
- Without exaggeration, this is not the peak of happiness and our dreams. But you must be aware that trade is the selection and compromise: buy what we can do, what others offer, or ... do not buy anything. For example, long-lasting negotiations on the prices of computers accessories price for the base unit. DAL THM could not release high amounts that we might want to allocate for the purchase of software for MSX rich variety of devices and peripherals. However, despite these limitations, we led decent quality equipment, which can be bought at a fair price. Prices have been calculated so that the cuts due to our profit margin by 16 percent to 12 percent and in some cases even below this limit. The value of transactions in the retail prices of around 3.4 billion zlotys.
- Customer is not interested in the possibility of foreign exchange trading and central systems in the Polish computer market. If, however, spends a few hundred thousand zlotys, wants to have good quality equipment. But the Spectravideo company do not operate on our market. Timex is a different version of Spectrum, which has not already too popular.
- Model TC 2048 is fully compatible with the Spectrum Plus, Spectravideo computers are working in the CP/M - should not be major problems with the use of existing software. The TC 2048 can be successfully used with broad range of games and educational programs.
- Some doubt, however, can raise to buy equipment that uses a 3.5", which we do not have. The existing among our microcomputer fans standard - 5.25".
- So to the computer SVI-738, that has a built-in 3.5" drive we are also sell the external 5.25" drive. Floppy 3" is coming to drive FDD3" for PC TC 2048. The same format used by the Amstrad - so popular with us.
The equipment has been tested by computer clubs including Katowice Informik, studied in the research institutes, as well as by individual specialists. Points out that this is the first batch of surveys. If the sale will be without problems, we have ensure from suppliers the Spectravideo to extension of the range. For example, 200 SVI-738 has an English keyboard. Next batch will be equipped with a Polish keyboard. Already in the transaction are 10 utility programs, and approximately 50 educational, which will be fully admitted to copying. So, in our initiating hardware store network will also be software.
- How do you assess the chances of selling in our market?
- At first I had some concerns about the company Spectravideo, but in mid-September in the months before the scheduled opening of the stands, we had so many orders that any concerns that have proven to unfounded. For example, orders received on all 3" floppy. Different companies want to buy it to sell later with savedprograms. Of course, we can not allow for such thing.
Since its inception, the Central Scout Supply Depot had one of the main objectives developing the interest of youth polytechnics. The consequence of this assumption is made the transaction.
- Let's hope that this transaction will break barriers associated with the inability to import equipment. We treat it as a chance to start state market - competitive to second-hand sale. In the next few numbers of "Bajtek" will present closercomputers TC 2048 and SVI-738 with the equipment.
Talking: S³awomir Pole
Roman Wojciechowski
LIST OF MICROCOMPUTER EQUIPMENT OFFERED FOR SALE AT RETAIL LOCATIONS OF CENTRAL SCOUT SUPPLY DEPOT.
No. Description Quantity Price in thousand zlotys
I TIMEX
1. Computer TC 2048 5000 106
2. FDD Floppy drive TIMEX 3" 1500 255
3. Printer TIMEX 50 700 96
4. Printer TIMEX 1000 500 280
5. Cassette TIMEX 2020 2000 30
6. Joystick QUICKSHOT 3500 8.5
7. Floppy 3" DS/DD 15000 3
II SPECTRAVIDEO (MSX-2)
1. Computer Svi-738 2000 440
2. Floppy drive BW112 5.25" 400 220
3. TTL mono monitor 12" 1700 94
4. Monitor color DCM-414, 13" 300 262
5. GLP Centronics Printer with cable 1000 300
6. Cassette recorder 767 200 33
7. Sony plotter with cable 300 415
8. An external memory card 64 KB 100 57
9. Graphic suite EDDY II + CAT 400 90
10. Floppy 3.5" (10 units) 4000 36
11. Ribbons for the printer GLP 2000 8
Indexed under
TS1000 / ZX81 / TS1500 · Joysticks & controllers · Utilities & applications · Spectrum emulation & software · For sale, wanted & collections