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think many US folks realise that Commodore hardware was literally
several times more expensive in Europe than in the US, and both
European and imported machines with disk drives were too expensive for
the mass market 'till the mid to late '80s.
That is why Sinclair developed the low-cost Microdrive stringy floppy
rather than a disk interface, which while well-intentioned was a
mistake, as it meant that no disk standard emerged on the Sinclair
platform till the +3 in '87, by which time tape was destined to be the
dominant software delivery platform and hence development platform.
Even with a standard disk platform on the C64, the price was too high,
and European developed Commodore software was also delivered on tape
as a result IIRC.
> It didn't matter what they were going to introduce - they were
> destined to fail because they didn't have the money/resources to
> ensure that what they released was going to be a success.
I am sure there is an element of truth in this, but a few million
units sold would have helped establish a significant revenue stream.
Nonetheless, Sinclair proved that you can mismanage even a substantial
cash flow and leave a company floundering!
Fred
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<p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>That’s just it, the
1541 was slower than any other disk drive I can think of at the time, so any
superior competitive offering would have had no real impact. Also, It was
still cheaper than most other disk drive solutions for most of its existence.
No other company COULD compete on price because Commodore controlled a
significant amount of their supply chain (acquiring and owning MOS technology
in particular was a stroke of genius/great luck in the mid-70’s) , so the
point is really moot. It’s what drove Texas Instruments out of the
business at the time – they tried to do what Commodore did in regards to
pricing and just hemorrhaged money because of it.<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regardless, a disk drive is better than a cassette drive ALWAYS
from my perspective. Even a slow disk drive is better than a fast tape
drive. Obviously better pirating was a plus and factor too. And
again, the C-64 didn’t win just because of price or capabilities or
software support or ubiquity or any other single reason, it won for ALL of
those reasons. It wasn’t the best at any one thing, but it did
enough right at the right price to succeed. The TS 2068, even if it were
different or whatever, would not only have had to overcome the C-64, but also
the other low end systems, like the TI-99/4a, CoCo and Atari 8-bit line,
something I’m not sure it could have done either. The TS 2068 would
have needed a proper keyboard, more memory, more software, more support, more,
more, more. Every other competitor “failed” in the low end market
for a reason. I’m by no means against ANY technology or “what
if?” scenario, it’s just that SO MUCH would have had to have
changed for anyone to have succeeded back then, not to mention the gradual
shift to 16-bit and beyond next generation technology starting around 1985,
when price was starting to become less and less of a factor, eventually
eliminating the need for a low end market.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>While a think even a few million units sold would have been
pie-in-the-sky for Timex with the 2068 – back then reaching a million
units was a significant milestone, it was obvious Timex was not in a position
to even attempt a proper launch at the time. There’s not much of a modern
day US Timex 2068 community for a sad reason – it was just not around
long enough or have enough domestic support. In fact, few people even
know of its existence today versus a myriad of other failures, like the Coleco
Adam, which were nevertheless much more high profile.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>=================================<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Bill Loguidice, <i>Managing Director</i><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Armchair Arcade, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>(A PC Magazine Top 100 Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>http://www.armchairarcade.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>=================================<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
[email] [mailto:[email]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fred<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 08, 2008 5:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ts2068] One big mistake timex made...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p><br>
On 09/01/2008, at 3:22, Bill Loguidice wrote:<br>
> And yes, the C-64's 1541 disk drive may have been slow, but it was <br>
> nowhere near as slow as a cassette drive and was more or less random <br>
> access.<br>
<br>
Random access yes, but in stock form I understand it was slower than <br>
the Sinclair/TS2068 tape interface. I understand that this ultimately <br>
meant that a disk accelerator cartridge was a compulsory purchase, but <br>
I feel that the massive over-engineering and under-performing of mass <br>
storage represented by the 1541 was a weakness that could have been <br>
exploited by a well-priced and fully-supported alternative by a <br>
competitor.<br>
<br>
Whether that would have been enough to change the tide, or even just <br>
establish a solid user base in the millions in the US I don't know.<br>
<br>
> Frankly, it's surprising that Europe stayed on cassettes for as long <br>
> as they did versus the US moving away from them relatively quickly.<br>
<br>