Timex Drives
16 messages · 2010-03-22 → 2010-03-28 · Yahoo Group era · View archive on archive.org
Participants: zniedzwiedz, Al Hartman, george.orr1, Don Dindang, zxbruno, Jack Boatwright
Preserved from the Timex/Sinclair 2068 Yahoo Group (2001–2019), which is no longer online. Text reproduced from the archive.org archive; email addresses masked.
Messages
1. Re: [ts2068] Timex Drives
Don Dindang · Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:15
To use these drives with TS2068 you need interface module (not show in your picture) and twister board.
________________________________
From: george.orr1 <[email]>
To: [email]
Sent: Sun, March 21, 2010 9:00:28 PM
Subject: [ts2068] Timex Drives
Does anyone know what I need to be able to plug these drives into my TS 2068? I have pictures of the drives at
http://woodworths. com/Timex/ Spectrum_ Disk_Drive. html
2. Timex Drives
george.orr1 · Mon, 22 Mar 2010 04:00
Does anyone know what I need to be able to plug these drives into my TS 2068? I have pictures of the drives at
http://woodworths.com/Timex/Spectrum_Disk_Drive.html
3. Re: Timex Drives
zniedzwiedz · Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:03
>> Does anyone know what I need to be able to plug these drives into my TS 2068? I have pictures of the drives at
>> http://woodworths. com/Timex/ Spectrum_ Disk_Drive. html
> To use these drives with TS2068 you need interface module (not show in your picture) and twister board.
You will also need:
-cartridge with ZX Spectrum compatibile ROM, unless the interface has Zebra ROM - in this case will work only with Timex 2068
-diskette with TOS A.2 (can be written on PC)
-proper power supply (black versions were 220V compatible) or autotransformer
More informations: http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/index.html
4. Re: Timex Drives
Al Hartman · Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:03
You would not only need a Twister board, but the silver 2068 Interface box that has the ROM compatible with the TS-2068.
I'd also ditch the proprietary 3" Amdek drives and try to get some 720k 3.5" drives for it.
I tried to get Stewart to sell the Zebra FDD with 5.25" drives, but he wouldn't do it.
I found my original copies of the DOS disks for the Zebra FDD. I just need to get a working disk system so I can copy them.
I would need 3" media or I would copy it to a 3.5" or 5.25" disk.
That's a project for the future.
I have a Spectrum controller which would work on a Spectrum or TC-2048. When we were emptying the Zebra warehouse, I was hoping to find some blank media and some repairable systems. But, none turned up.
Al
5. Re: Timex Drives
zniedzwiedz · Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:47
--- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
>
> You would not only need a Twister board, but the silver 2068 Interface box that has the ROM compatible with the TS-2068.
>
> I'd also ditch the proprietary 3" Amdek drives and try to get some 720k 3.5" drives for it.
>
> I tried to get Stewart to sell the Zebra FDD with 5.25" drives, but he wouldn't do it.
>
> I found my original copies of the DOS disks for the Zebra FDD. I just need to get a working disk system so I can copy them.
>
> I would need 3" media or I would copy it to a 3.5" or 5.25" disk.
>
> That's a project for the future.
>
> I have a Spectrum controller which would work on a Spectrum or TC-2048. When we were emptying the Zebra warehouse, I was hoping to find some blank media and some repairable systems. But, none turned up.
>
> Al
Timex FDD (and FDD 3000) were most popular ZX Spectrum compatible disk drives in Poland. Most popular upgrade was (due to high prices of 3" diskettes) adding second 5,25" drive - 360k with head select switch. TOS A.2 worked with 720k drives also, with undocumented FORMAT * /d option.
It's quite easy to make images and copies 3" diskettes on PC. I'm using http://www.cpcmania.com/cpcdiskxp/cpcdiskxp.htm on desktop PC with connected 3" drive from FDD3000. Important thing is to set jumper to "1" position on 3" drive.
Image of TOS A.2 diskette:
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/dsk/spectrum/tos/tosa2a.dsk
I'm curious if "Zebra FDD DOS" is different of well known TOS A.2...
6. Re: Timex Drives
Al Hartman · Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:22
Well, the Zebra Disk System was just the Timex Portugal Disk system. The FDD-2000 towards the end, and the three separate boxes (Drive, Controller and 110v Power Supply) in Silver in the beginning.
I don't have any 3" drives, so until I can find a system to use -- I can't move forward.
My friend has a system he isn't using. If I can get him to dig it out, and it still works... I can help people looking for the OS Disks.
The two I can find easily, are V A2.1 -- One each for the TS-2068 and ZX-Spectrum. Somewhere else, I have the CP/M disks and Tasword modified for disk use. My friend will have a selection of disks as well.
Al
7. Re: Timex Drives
zniedzwiedz · Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:59
--- In [email], Al Hartman <alhartman6@...> wrote:
>
> Well, the Zebra Disk System was just the Timex Portugal Disk system. The FDD-2000 towards the end, and the three separate boxes (Drive, Controller and 110v Power Supply) in Silver in the beginning.
I thouhgt that only US importer of TMX Portugal devices was Zebra and all US versions were silver.
> I don't have any 3" drives, so until I can find a system to use -- I can't move forward.
>
> My friend has a system he isn't using. If I can get him to dig it out, and it still works... I can help people looking for the OS Disks.
>
> The two I can find easily, are V A2.1 -- One each for the TS-2068 and ZX-Spectrum. Somewhere else, I have the CP/M disks and Tasword modified for disk use. My friend will have a selection of disks as well.
>
> Al
>
There were two versions of TOS known in Poland about 20 years ago: original A.2 and A.4 http://8bit.yarek.pl/system/zx.tosa4/index.html so V A2.1 could be very interesting - do you have any information about it's history?
8. Re: Timex Drives
Al Hartman · Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:38
As far as I know, Zebra was the only company that imported the drive systems in any great number. I'm sure other people bought individual systems direct from European distributors.
The first systems we sold were silver. Other than the interface box I have, we never got a black system. The FDD 2000 system was one-piece and black. All it was, was the three piece system mounted into a metal box.
I have no information on the V A2.1 OS. It was what we supplied with all systems. It came directly from Timex Portugal.
Al
9. Re: Timex Drives
zniedzwiedz · Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:58
> As far as I know, Zebra was the only company that imported the drive systems in any great number. I'm sure other people bought individual systems direct from European distributors.
There is "110V" label at the power supply photo, so probably someone changed connections to transformer's primary winding to get proper voltage.
> The first systems we sold were silver. Other than the interface box I have, we never got a black system. The FDD 2000 system was one-piece and black. All it was, was the three piece system mounted into a metal box.
Was it similar to FDD3000 or Unipolbrit FDD?
http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_front.jpg
http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_left.jpg
http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_back.jpg
http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_bottom.jpg
http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_right.jpg
> I have no information on the V A2.1 OS. It was what we supplied with all systems. It came directly from Timex Portugal.
>
I'm very interested. I hope that some day I will try to run this version on my equipment (I have Timex FDD3000, Timex FDD - Power Supply only, Unipolbrit FDD and Unipolbrit FDD with 2 5,25" drives - some called it FDD6000).
10. Re: Timex Drives
zxbruno · Thu, 25 Mar 2010 06:44
I own two FDD3000 systems with the interfaces which have been repaired recently (thanks, you know who you are!) but never had the original one with all the separate boxes. As far as I know there wasn't any FDD2000. I grew up just a few miles away from the factory where the FDDs were first invented, and accompanied the evolution of Timex Portugal step by step. I also have a book where the main people of Timex explain many things in detail. They were interviewed back in 2004. I also have a collection of aprox. 30 3" disks with homemade software, all done on the TC2048 back in 1987. I take care of these disks as if they were gold! I grew up using these computers and disks because in Portugal we had a School project called Minerva and many schools had Timex TC2048s in a specific room just for computer courses, to get students used to computers and computer language. Great times! When I moved from Portugal to the U.S. in 1995 I left all my old Timex hardware over there, but every time I visit I open the boxes because I can't contain the nostalgia...
I recently had most of these disks transferred to the PC thanks to a friend in Spain. The folks on Speccy.org and www.worldofspectrum.org have taught us how to connect a real internal 3" to any desktop computer that still has the IDE controller. The BIOS needs to be set to detect it as a 5 1/2 drive but it works. Programs like Samdisk, CPCread or the XP version of it convert the disks to .DSK (EDSK) images, which in turn can be converted to Spectrum +3 format and read in emulators, thanks to John Elliot who was kind enough to create an utility for me for that purpose. Programs that were created specifically to run from the FDD systems won't work when converted to the Spectrum +3's DOS format, but you can see the contents of the disks, access the programs and make the necessary changes, all this in the comfort of your modern PC. So, to those who thought you needed the original system to work again to recover old disks, you don't. :)
There's no emulator that will emulate the Timex FDD or Timex FDD3000 just yet because 1-there's not enough interest to justify it, 2-even if there was interest, there's only about a dozen people who would come forward and request it, 3-the amount of software that can be run from this system is insignificant compared to other Sinclair systems, 4-the Timex FDD3000 (not sure about the older model) is considered a computer itself because it can run without the Spectrum or the Timex. All it needs is a keyboard, and this makes emulation a lot more difficult, basically trying to emulate 2 computers at the same time.
But since you can backup the disks and extract the files from the disk images, it's already something.
The utility by John Elliot is called TimexPl3. Thanks John!
Some of you might not be aware of everything that's going on and all the resources that have been made available to us. Please visit the worldofspectrum and css more often, read Speccy.org's forums using Google Translate, etc. There's a lot of valuable information out there and I fear that some members here might not be up-to-date. It's a constantly-changing world of Sinclair-goodness, as I like to call it. Don't miss out!
My friends in Spain have successfully backed up the contents of the FDD3000 (I think there were at least 2 roms). More will be done, little by little. I sent my two FDD3000 interfaces to Spain around 2 years ago, and some of the information about the PAL chip, repairs and more is already online.
--- In [email], "zniedzwiedz" <zoon@...> wrote:
>
> > As far as I know, Zebra was the only company that imported the drive systems in any great number. I'm sure other people bought individual systems direct from European distributors.
>
> There is "110V" label at the power supply photo, so probably someone changed connections to transformer's primary winding to get proper voltage.
>
> > The first systems we sold were silver. Other than the interface box I have, we never got a black system. The FDD 2000 system was one-piece and black. All it was, was the three piece system mounted into a metal box.
>
> Was it similar to FDD3000 or Unipolbrit FDD?
> http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_front.jpg
> http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_left.jpg
> http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_back.jpg
> http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_bottom.jpg
> http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_right.jpg
>
> > I have no information on the V A2.1 OS. It was what we supplied with all systems. It came directly from Timex Portugal.
> >
> I'm very interested. I hope that some day I will try to run this version on my equipment (I have Timex FDD3000, Timex FDD - Power Supply only, Unipolbrit FDD and Unipolbrit FDD with 2 5,25" drives - some called it FDD6000).
>
11. Re: Timex Drives
Al Hartman · Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:17
FDD-3000 Must be right. I don't have one here, and haven't seen one for over 20 years.
The FDD-3000 is the same system as the original 3 box version.
The only difference is that the three boxes are mounted into a metal case, and the Controller box has 64k instead of 16k.
Al
12. Re: [ts2068] Re: Timex Drives
Jack Boatwright · Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:20
What Al really means is that the components from the three boxes (not the boxes themselves) are mounted inside the FDD 3000 metal case and enhanced with 64K RAM. And nicer because the overheating problem is nearly resolved (how many of us "modified" our FDD power supply box to allow better cooling?). My mod was to cut out a portion of the sides of the box to allow air flow. :(
There is a version of the FDD 3000 from Poland known as the FDD 6000. This has a 5.25 inch drive built in. Also Poland made a version of the FDD known as the FDD-3 (this one can be seen at: www.worldofspectrum.org/timex). There is also some info on the disk systems there.
Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Hartman
To: [email]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:17 PM
Subject: [ts2068] Re: Timex Drives
FDD-3000 Must be right. I don't have one here, and haven't seen one for over 20 years.
The FDD-3000 is the same system as the original 3 box version.
The only difference is that the three boxes are mounted into a metal case, and the Controller box has 64k instead of 16k.
Al
13. Re: Timex Drives
Al Hartman · Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:12
Yes. Thanks Jack, for making what I wrote clear.
Though I had left Zebra by the time they were selling the FDD-3000, I was told that the mounting of the components inside the case was shoddy, and in shipping things would break loose and become damaged. This was the main failure mode of the systems.
I was hoping a couple of broken systems would still be in the warehouse that I could repair. But, I guess they either fixed them all, or sold the broken units to someone else who did.
Al
14. Re: Timex Drives
zniedzwiedz · Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:15
--- In [email], "zxbruno" <zxspectrum128@...> wrote:
>
> I own two FDD3000 systems with the interfaces which have been repaired recently (thanks, you know who you are!) but never had the original one with all the separate boxes.
This model (Timex FDD 3) was first disk drive that I owned back in 1989 I think. About year later I swapped it to FDD3000.
>As far as I know there wasn't any FDD2000. I grew up just a few miles away from the factory where the FDDs were first invented, and accompanied the evolution of Timex Portugal step by step. I also have a book where the main people of Timex explain many things in detail. They were interviewed back in 2004.
AFAIK there wasn't any FDD2000, I agree. But I didn't know about existence TOS V A.2.1 either so maybe it's true?
>I also have a collection of aprox. 30 3" disks with homemade software, all done on the TC2048 back in 1987. I take care of these disks as if they were gold!
I have many disks from FDD 3000 with software in TOS A.2, A.4 or CP/M format. I made images of them and I'm planning to setup some preservation site. I think images of your disks could be great contribution to this virtual museum.
>I grew up using these computers and disks because in Portugal we had a School project called Minerva and many schools had Timex TC2048s in a specific room just for computer courses, to get students used to computers and computer language. Great times! When I moved from Portugal to the U.S. in 1995 I left all my old Timex hardware over there, but every time I visit I open the boxes because I can't contain the nostalgia...
Poland was behind iron courtain and separated from newest technology. I've heard about computers but first time touched it on the course of Sinclair Basic in summer '86. It was Unipolbrit 2086 with Sinclair ROM cartridge. Year later I had access to TC2048 at school and in next year my parents bought me TC2048. It was a lot of fun, but buing disk drive was great step ahead and changing it to FDD3000 opened CP/M world to me.
> I recently had most of these disks transferred to the PC thanks to a friend in Spain. The folks on Speccy.org and www.worldofspectrum.org have taught us how to connect a real internal 3" to any desktop computer that still has the IDE controller. The BIOS needs to be set to detect it as a 5 1/2 drive but it works. Programs like Samdisk, CPCread or the XP version of it convert the disks to .DSK (EDSK) images, which in turn can be converted to Spectrum +3 format and read in emulators, thanks to John Elliot who was kind enough to create an utility for me for that purpose. Programs that were created specifically to run from the FDD systems won't work when converted to the Spectrum +3's DOS format, but you can see the contents of the disks, access the programs and make the necessary changes, all this in the comfort of your modern PC. So, to those who thought you needed the original system to work again to recover old disks, you don't. :)
> There's no emulator that will emulate the Timex FDD or Timex FDD3000 just yet because 1-there's not enough interest to justify it, 2-even if there was interest, there's only about a dozen people who would come forward and request it, 3-the amount of software that can be run from this system is insignificant compared to other Sinclair systems, 4-the Timex FDD3000 (not sure about the older model) is considered a computer itself because it can run without the Spectrum or the Timex. All it needs is a keyboard, and this makes emulation a lot more difficult, basically trying to emulate 2 computers at the same time.
1. I've read about emulator: http://8bit.yarek.pl/emulator/timex.fdd/index.html
2. Maybe. But there are more exotic computer which were emulated :-)
3. Are you sure? A lot of Spectrum 48k software was transferred to TOS. Sometimes it was hard to do it properly (i.e. multilevel games like R-type) but doable.
4. Probably it could be done in MESS.
> But since you can backup the disks and extract the files from the disk images, it's already something.
>
> The utility by John Elliot is called TimexPl3. Thanks John!
>
> Some of you might not be aware of everything that's going on and all the resources that have been made available to us. Please visit the worldofspectrum and css more often, read Speccy.org's forums using Google Translate, etc. There's a lot of valuable information out there and I fear that some members here might not be up-to-date. It's a constantly-changing world of Sinclair-goodness, as I like to call it. Don't miss out!
I'm reading css all the time but Timex related subjects are rare. Is it different at WOS forums?
> My friends in Spain have successfully backed up the contents of the FDD3000 (I think there were at least 2 roms). More will be done, little by little. I sent my two FDD3000 interfaces to Spain around 2 years ago, and some of the information about the PAL chip, repairs and more is already online.
All of this have been done years before, just check Yarek's site.
> --- In [email], "zniedzwiedz" <zoon@> wrote:
> >
> > > As far as I know, Zebra was the only company that imported the drive systems in any great number. I'm sure other people bought individual systems direct from European distributors.
> >
> > There is "110V" label at the power supply photo, so probably someone changed connections to transformer's primary winding to get proper voltage.
> >
> > > The first systems we sold were silver. Other than the interface box I have, we never got a black system. The FDD 2000 system was one-piece and black. All it was, was the three piece system mounted into a metal box.
> >
> > Was it similar to FDD3000 or Unipolbrit FDD?
> > http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_front.jpg
> > http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_left.jpg
> > http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_back.jpg
> > http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_bottom.jpg
> > http://8bit.yarek.pl/computer/timex.fdd3/upb_right.jpg
> >
> > > I have no information on the V A2.1 OS. It was what we supplied with all systems. It came directly from Timex Portugal.
> > >
> > I'm very interested. I hope that some day I will try to run this version on my equipment (I have Timex FDD3000, Timex FDD - Power Supply only, Unipolbrit FDD and Unipolbrit FDD with 2 5,25" drives - some called it FDD6000).
> >
>
15. Re: Timex Drives
zniedzwiedz · Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:34
--- In [email], "Jack Boatwright" <jboatno4@...> wrote:
>
> What Al really means is that the components from the three boxes (not the boxes themselves) are mounted inside the FDD 3000 metal case and enhanced with 64K RAM.
Not exactly. It is almost true in case Unipolbrit FDD/6000 (power supply was obviously made in Poland).
Unipolbrit FDD:
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_fdd3\20090915IMG_0776.JPG
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_fdd3\20090915IMG_0780.JPG
Unipolbrit FDD 6000:
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_fdd5/20090913IMG_0732.JPG
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_fdd5/20090913IMG_0736.JPG
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_fdd5/20090913IMG_0746.JPG
As you can see controller is in exactly same shape and version like in original Timex FDD.
There are differencies between Timex FDD and FDD3000 other than simple memory extension and metal case.
FDD3000:
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/fdd3000/20060913IMG_6280.JPG
Controller board was redesigned. There are some minor changes because of moving power supply to it - but there is a lot more. Composite Video (simple output od Timex Terminal 3000), unpopulated Centronics interface and extension connector. Dont't forget about toroidal transformer.
>And nicer because the overheating problem is nearly resolved (how many of us "modified" our FDD power supply box to allow better cooling?). My mod was to cut out a portion of the sides of the box to allow air flow. :(
Mine was hot too but wasn't modified and survived :-)
> There is a version of the FDD 3000 from Poland known as the FDD 6000. This has a 5.25 inch drive built in. Also Poland made a version of the FDD known as the FDD-3 (this one can be seen at: www.worldofspectrum.org/timex). There is also some info on the disk systems there.
There are some mistakes at www.worldofspectrum.org/timex
Unipolbrit name *wasn't* derived from United States. There was a company Polbrit (some kind of polish and british joint venture) and polish company UNIMOR.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kupazlomu.ovh.org%2Fkolekcja%2Funipolbrit2086.htm&sl=pl&tl=en
You wrote that "It was reported in 1986, that TMX Portugal sold over 800,000 TC2048, TC2068 and FDD-3000 units to an un-named entity in Poland". First - article http://www.worldofspectrum.org/timex/poland.htm says that "800,000 units will be sold over the next five years". I think it didn't happen, not in that quantities. Even now we dont't know other markets than Poland (and Portugal/USA) where Timex sold their products. So I should know something about it since I was there. Unfortunately only information I know for sure is interview: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ts2068/message/2492 I think it's true, because:
-my school got few (8 maybe?) TC2048 and 1 or 2 Timex FDD in 1987 -I've seen Timex products in CSH shops
-I've bought TC2048 in 1988 and Timex FDD about year later
-I had school practice at CSH service of Timex equipment
There are other clues that Unipolbrit production wasn't massive. I looked under my machines and saw serial numbers: 303/86 (FDD), 627/88 (FDD 6000) and 268 (UK2086). They was rare here. I don't know any polish computer magazine which wrote any article or review about Unipolbrit. Only once in article in Bajtek 4/85 there was information about shop where was available UK2086 with disk drive, monitor and cassette recorder in price which only institutional buyer could afford.
16. Re: Timex Drives
zniedzwiedz · Sun, 28 Mar 2010 23:01
--- In [email], "zniedzwiedz" <zoon@...> wrote:
[cut]
> Unipolbrit FDD:
> http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_fdd3\20090915IMG_0776.JPG
> http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_fdd3\20090915IMG_0780.JPG
Correct links:
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_fdd3/20090915IMG_0776.JPG
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/gallery/unipolbrit_fdd3/20090915IMG_0780.JPG
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