TS2068 disk drive systems
10 messages · 2008-01-08 → 2008-01-08 · Yahoo Group era · View archive on archive.org
Participants: Timex, Glen Goodwin, Adam Trionfo, William Dunlop, Mark Martin, Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey
Preserved from the Timex/Sinclair 2068 Yahoo Group (2001–2019), which is no longer online. Text reproduced from the archive.org archive; email addresses masked.
Messages
1. RE: Introduction
Adam Trionfo · Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:24:
Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey, on Mon 1/07/08 8:11 PM, wrote:
>>
Thanks for the welcome Adam! I see you hit the ground running.
>>
I want to learn about the system, and the best way to do that is to ask questions. I've also ordered a few TS 2068 books off of the Internet (have not got them yet). Worldofspectrum.org has MANY books on the Spectrum that have been scanned-in, but there are so few books that have been scanned for the TS 2068.
>>
The article you posted made a lot of sense.
>>
If you try it before I do, then let us know!
>>
Actually, I am in Houston, Texas.
>>
I'm "almost" a neighbor. I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
>>
Oh yeah. I have been in the mood for some Z80 assembly for a long, long time.
>>
I figure that the TS 2068 is a neat little computer to learn to program the Z80 (well, really, to learn to program a GAME). The TS 2068 is friendly, once you get past some off features (keyboard, lack of disk drive). There is plenty of documentation (mostly for the Spectrum). There are plenty of utilities (cross-assemblers, tape programs). There are programs that will take assembled files and make them into TZX files for loading them onto emulators (I have not tried this yet). In the end, I want to learn skills on the TS 2068 that I can bring back to the Astrocade.
>>
Have you run into any wiki sites for the 2068?
>>
I've not seen any. What would be the advantage of one of these?
>>
Communities like this need a central site, rather than fragmentation.
>>
Agreed! For a system with such a small following, even two or three "extra" sites is one or two too many.
Adam
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2. Re: [ts2068] RE: Introduction
Timex · Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:43:
> The TS 2068 is friendly, once you get past some off features
> (keyboard, lack of disk drive).
Get a Larken or a Zebra FDD3000 system to add disk drive to TS2068.
Je
3. TS2068 disk drive systems
Glen Goodwin · Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:15
No to start an argument, but the Oliger system is much
better than the Larken, and it is still supported by
the designer.
Glen
Johnny Red (Timex) wrote:
>> The TS 2068 is friendly, once you get past some off features
>> (keyboard, lack of disk drive).
>
> Get a Larken or a Zebra FDD3000 system to add disk drive to TS2068.
>
> Je
>
>
4. Re: TS2068 disk drive systems
Glen Goodwin · Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:42
Adam Trionfo wrote:
> What do you like about the Oliger system?
It doesn't plug into the cart dock, for one.
> What do you mean it is "still supported?" How can that be?
As recently as two or three years ago I purchased some items
from John Oliger, and he repaired some boards for me. Although
he closed the business several years ago he still sells and
repairs his drive interfaces and related items.
> What was the most popular disk drive system?
Probably the LarKen, but I could never understand why. Seven
or eight years ago I emailed him with some questions about his
products and I received a very rude reply in which he told me
not to ever bother him again.
> The later Spectrums used disk systems that used 3" (not 3 1/2" disks),
> right? How do they fit into this picture?
Not well ;-) Some Speccys and Amstrads use 3" media, which is
nearly impossible to find today.
Another "mass storage" device was the stringy floppy drive.
They were unreliable to the point of near uselessness, and,
again, media is very hard to find at present.
Glen
5. Re: [ts2068] Re: TS2068 disk drive systems
Mark Martin · Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:50:
On Jan 8, 2008 3:42 PM, Glen Goodwin <[email]> wrote:
> As recently as two or three years ago I purchased some items
> from John Oliger, and he repaired some boards for me. Although
> he closed the business several years ago he still sells and
> repairs his drive interfaces and related items.
Glen,
I remember asking for John's address (possibly from you?) a few years
ago. I don't recall if I ever saw it, so would you mind reposting it?
He doesn't have a website by chance, does he?
Thanks,
Mark
6. Oliger disk drive i/f
Glen Goodwin · Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:06
Mark Martin wrote:
> I remember asking for John's address (possibly from you?) a few years
> ago. I don't recall if I ever saw it, so would you mind reposting it?
> He doesn't have a website by chance, does he?
Hi Mark --
I will post his address this week. I know where I have
the info stashed, and I'll dig it up tonight. I promise! ;-)
Ad, yes, Adam, the entire contents of TS2068 RAM can be written
to disk quickly on an Oliger system because it does not use a
FAT. Files are simply written to the diskette one after the other.
This makes some operations very slow -- such as deleting a file
in the middle of the file list, since all of the files following
the deleted file must now be copied to a new location, thus filling
up the "hole" left by the now-deleted file.
By and large, though, the system is very fast and reliable,
and the documentation is excellent.
Glen
7. TS2068 disk drive systems
William Dunlop · Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:38
Glen
I agree we should NOT argue.
BUT as I bought two Larken Systems early on, or "back in the days" as
one poster put it, I got a lot of use from it in running two small
businesses (Yes on a 2068!) and found that even with its limitations I
enjoyed the Larkenized 2068. I didn't get to try out the "Oli" until
later, but by then was so used to the Larken I still favored it. YMMV :)
I am overjoyed to find our little group still active and even gaining
new members. I will try to be a bit more active now that I have
"retired" from my 60hr a week job.
I still have a LOT (full CCATS library of books, Mags, Tapes etc) of
older materials for the '68 (and the 1000) and may to talked into
scanning for the group.
OhnO the Clown
8. Re: [ts2068] TS2068 disk drive systems
Timex · Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:37:
I didn't mentioned it because I didn't remember about it.
In Portugal Timex FDD/FDD3000 was king.
Je
On Jan 8, 2008, at 4:15 PM, Glen Goodwin wrote:
> No to start an argument, but the Oliger system is much
> better than the Larken, and it is still supported by
> the designer.
>
> Glen
>
> Johnny Red (Timex) wrote:
>>> The TS 2068 is friendly, once you get past some off features
>>> (keyboard, lack of disk drive).
>>
>> Get a Larken or a Zebra FDD3000 system to add disk drive to TS2068.
>>
>> Je
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
9. Re: [ts2068] Re: TS2068 disk drive systems
Timex · Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:44:
On Jan 8, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Glen Goodwin wrote:
>> What was the most popular disk drive system?
>
> Probably the LarKen, but I could never understand why. Seven
> or eight years ago I emailed him with some questions about his
> products and I received a very rude reply in which he told me
> not to ever bother him again.
In Portugal, Timex FDD and Timex FDD3000.
For Spectrum, Plus D.
>
>> The later Spectrums used disk systems that used 3" (not 3 1/2"
>> disks),
>> right? How do they fit into this picture?
>
> Not well ;-) Some Speccys and Amstrads use 3" media, which is
> nearly impossible to find today.
Timex FDD/FDD3000 uses 3" disks with 140K by side. But it can use
3,5" DSDD drives and TOS can format 640K disks! TOS is ALWAYS copied
to a new formatted disk, so any TOS disk CAN boot the FDD/FDD3000.
Timex FDD/FDD3000 can control a maximum of 4 drives. 4x640K=2560K data!!
Je
10. Re: [ts2068] RE: Introduction
Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey · Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:40
On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 21:24 -0800, Adam Trionfo wrote:
> I figure that the TS 2068 is a neat little computer to
> learn to program the Z80 (well, really, to learn to
> program a GAME).
There you go.
I would be happy to help you get a game out the door for
the TS. I have books and books of microcomputer games
from "back in the day" that I have kept around. I love
going back to them and seeing the original versions of
things I see repeated in games to this day (puzzles, and
such).
Many people start with versions of card, dice, or board
games (which is why you see SO MANY of them). If you are
lacking for ideas of what your game would play like, then
you could code a TS2068 version of an existing game, while
you work on the design of something "just yours".
> The TS 2068 is friendly, once you get past some off features
> (keyboard, lack of disk drive).
> There is plenty of documentation (mostly for the Spectrum).
> There are plenty of utilities (cross-assemblers, tape programs).
> There are programs that will take assembled files and make them
> into TZX files for loading them onto emulators (I have not tried
> this yet). In the end, I want to learn skills on the TS 2068 that
> I can bring back to the Astrocade.
There you go.
I don't get to write much code anymore (which is why I am
going to write some Vectrex games just to do it), but I
have found that the key to success is your design *outside
of the computer*.
No one just "builds a house", without first thinking a lot
about what they do and don't want, then making several
designs on paper until it seems "just right". Then, maybe
some consulting with others to let them knock holes in your
idea. Revise it. When the holes stop getting knocked,
then maybe a quick, throw-together model to try it out
before the expense of building the actual house. If the
model works, then its back to planning to come up with the
shopping list of things you need and things to do to build
the house, and some thought of the order to do them in.
Usually, there's a lot of consulting here, too.
A fun exercise in game design is to imagine you are
playing the game *without* the computer. Can you play
a paper version on your kitchen table?
> >>
> Have you run into any wiki sites for the 2068?
> >>
>
> I've not seen any. What would be the advantage of one of these?
A wiki is a collaborative website, like Wikipedia.
Its a website, but each page you see is not just for reading.
Anyone (or specific folks) can open the page in an editor,
right within their browser, add or change the page without
using HTML, simply some special symbols the wiki site will
render into HTML when it reads the page out again. Then save
it.You reload the webpage, and see the new edited version.
For a retroplatform like the TS2068, I thought it might
be good to have a wiki with an article for each common
topic, where everyone can add their own notes about that
topic: Z80 CPU, AY 8912, Keyboard Modes, etc. Some wikis
have separate "discussion" or "talk" sections on the
page that are not part of the article content, but let each
article have its own associated forum. See the "talk" tab
of any Wikipedia page for an example.
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/TS2068
--
Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey
There comes a time to stop being angry.
-- A Small Circle of Friends