TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
10 messages · 2007-11-28 → 2007-12-02 · Yahoo Group era · View archive on archive.org
Participants: Bill Loguidice, Adam Trionfo, Louis Florit, Timex, Mark Scheck, Steven Collins, James the Animal Tamer
Preserved from the Timex/Sinclair 2068 Yahoo Group (2001–2019), which is no longer online. Text reproduced from the archive.org archive; email addresses masked.
Messages
1. TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
Louis Florit · Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:28
The Timex Sinclair 2068 keyboard rated 9th worst according to Benj
Edwards' "PC World The 10 Worst PC Keyboards of All Time" article.
Less than complimentary about our dear old computer, the author writes
"It's no exaggeration to say that using the 2068's keyboard without
training was like trying to type while drunk and blindfolded." The
Timex Sinclair 1000 keyboard was ranked 4th worst - an assesment I
agree with, given the number of times I was close to finish typing a
program only to knock the 16k expander slightly enough to reset the
computer.
Check it out here if you'd like a laugh and to see which was the
absolute worst...
http://tech.msn.com/products/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=5717413&imageindex=1
Regards,
Louis
--
Louis Florit - :(){ :|:& };:
AIM: lflorit MSN:[email] Y!: indygolunaria
GoogleTalk: [email]
2. RE: [ts2068] TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
Bill Loguidice · Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:45
Not bad at all as far as these things go. It's rather chiclet keyboard
heavy and he missed some obscure ones like the Interact and VideoBrain, but
that's to be expected. Nice find!
=================================
Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
Armchair Arcade, Inc.
(A PC Magazine Top 100 Website)
http://www.armchairarcade.com
=================================
From: [email] [mailto:[email]] On Behalf Of
Louis Florit
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:28 AM
To: [email]
Subject: [ts2068] TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
The Timex Sinclair 2068 keyboard rated 9th worst according to Benj
Edwards' "PC World The 10 Worst PC Keyboards of All Time" article.
Less than complimentary about our dear old computer, the author writes
"It's no exaggeration to say that using the 2068's keyboard without
training was like trying to type while drunk and blindfolded." The
Timex Sinclair 1000 keyboard was ranked 4th worst - an assesment I
agree with, given the number of times I was close to finish typing a
program only to knock the 16k expander slightly enough to reset the
computer.
Check it out here if you'd like a laugh and to see which was the
absolute worst...
http://tech.msn.com/products/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=5717413
<http://tech.msn.com/products/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=5717413&imageinde
x=1> &imageindex=1
Regards,
Louis
--
Louis Florit - :(){ :|:& };:
AIM: lflorit MSN:[email]
<mailto:louis_florit%40hotmail.com> Y!: indygolunaria
GoogleTalk: [email] <mailto:florit%40gmail.com>
3. Re: [ts2068] TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
Timex · Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:19
The title should be changed to "PC World The 10 Worst U.S. PC
Keyboards of All Time".
Spectrum rubber keyboard was worst than TS2068 keyboard.
Johnny Red, Portugal
On Nov 28, 2007, at 6:28 AM, Louis Florit wrote:
> The Timex Sinclair 2068 keyboard rated 9th worst according to Benj
> Edwards' "PC World The 10 Worst PC Keyboards of All Time" article.
> Less than complimentary about our dear old computer, the author writes
> "It's no exaggeration to say that using the 2068's keyboard without
> training was like trying to type while drunk and blindfolded." The
> Timex Sinclair 1000 keyboard was ranked 4th worst - an assesment I
> agree with, given the number of times I was close to finish typing a
> program only to knock the 16k expander slightly enough to reset the
> computer.
>
>
> Check it out here if you'd like a laugh and to see which was the
> absolute worst...
>
> http://tech.msn.com/products/slideshow.aspx?cp-
> documentid=5717413&imageindex=1
>
> Regards,
> Louis
>
>
> --
> Louis Florit - :(){ :|:& };:
> AIM: lflorit MSN:[email] Y!: indygolunaria
> GoogleTalk: [email]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
4. Re: [ts2068] TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
Steven Collins · Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:16
That reminds me. I need to try to revive my old zx81 keyboard with some flexible plastic and a circuit pen.
Louis Florit <[email]> wrote: The Timex Sinclair 2068 keyboard rated 9th worst according to Benj
Edwards' "PC World The 10 Worst PC Keyboards of All Time" article.
Less than complimentary about our dear old computer, the author writes
"It's no exaggeration to say that using the 2068's keyboard without
training was like trying to type while drunk and blindfolded." The
Timex Sinclair 1000 keyboard was ranked 4th worst - an assesment I
agree with, given the number of times I was close to finish typing a
program only to knock the 16k expander slightly enough to reset the
computer.
Check it out here if you'd like a laugh and to see which was the
absolute worst...
http://tech.msn.com/products/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=5717413&imageindex=1
Regards,
Louis
--
Louis Florit - :(){ :|:& };:
AIM: lflorit MSN:[email] Y!: indygolunaria
GoogleTalk: [email]
"What happened was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to be governed by surprise, to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believe that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. " ~ an anonymous German Professor from 'They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1939-1945', by Milton Mayer
---------------------------------
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5. Re: [ts2068] TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
Mark Scheck · Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:17
And yet we all managed on the 2068 amazingly ;-), currently at work we get these crappy little black Dell keyboards. And don't get me started on Sun keyboards were the caps lock and tab are reversed, makes using Bash a really pain in the neck.
Louis Florit <[email]> wrote: The Timex Sinclair 2068 keyboard rated 9th worst according to Benj
Edwards' "PC World The 10 Worst PC Keyboards of All Time" article.
Less than complimentary about our dear old computer, the author writes
"It's no exaggeration to say that using the 2068's keyboard without
training was like trying to type while drunk and blindfolded." The
Timex Sinclair 1000 keyboard was ranked 4th worst - an assesment I
agree with, given the number of times I was close to finish typing a
program only to knock the 16k expander slightly enough to reset the
computer.
Check it out here if you'd like a laugh and to see which was the
absolute worst...
http://tech.msn.com/products/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=5717413&imageindex=1
Regards,
Louis
--
Louis Florit - :(){ :|:& };:
AIM: lflorit MSN:[email] Y!: indygolunaria
GoogleTalk: [email]
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
6. Re: TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
Adam Trionfo · Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:34
I know that the article is about worst "keyboards," but if we count ANY computer input entry methods than we have some other fantastic winners. Here are some more, some keyboards, some not, these are not in any order:
1) Bally Astrocade - A computer that is dear to my heart but with a horrible scheme for entering BASIC programs using a keypad. The Astrocade has twenty-four keys, so you use shift in order to simply get all the letters of the alphabet. It's a pretty early entry into the marketplace (1977), and I guess that it beats the next entry, the Altair, which didn't even HAVE a keypad, let alone a keyboard. For examples of overlays for the Bally Astrocade, check this out:
http://www.ballyalley.com/pics/keypad_overlays/keypad_overlays.html
2) MITS Altair - No keyboard, no keypad, nothing like that. Setting toggle switches allowed you to input one BYTE at a time. Ouch, that must have HURT. The best part is, YOU had to keep track of where you were in memory when entering the program. But ya gotta give 'em credit... they WERE first to market with a "micro" computer. Check out the Altair's entry method here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Altair_Computer_Front_Panel.jpg
3) Atari 2600 "BASIC Programming" / Atari 7800 "Monitor Cartridge" - Both of these consoles used two "keyboard" controllers put together to make a method for entering data. Two keyboard controllers gave you twenty-four keys in all. It's lack of keys isn't so bad for two reasons: 1) On the VCS you only had about sixty bytes (or "symbols") to use before you ran out of memory-- you certainly were not going to be typing a letter to Grandma; 2) On the Monitor Cartridge you were programming in machine language, so you could only enter in numbers and commands.
You can check out the "BASIC Programming" Overlay here:
http://www.atariage.com/overlay_page.html?SoftwareLabelID
You can check out the "Monitor Cartridge" overlay here:
http://www.atari7800.org/manuals/overlay.jpg
4) Intellivision Entertainment Computer System (ECS): I have to admit that I've never actually USED this "computer." However, if it's entry method is as bad as it looks... then... well, you decide:
http://www.corestack.com/machines/ecs.html
5) VideoBrain: I've never used it, but Bill votes for it, so here's a picture of the thirty-key keyboard of the VideoBrain:
http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/vidbrain/
6) Interact Home Computer System: This is another computer that I've never used but that Bill votes for. The computer's keyboard doesn't look so bad. I guess the keys are rubber? At least you get a keyboard and not a keypad or two different controllers put together. Here's a picture:
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c04
7) Panasonic JR-200U - All right, now here is a computer that I DO have experience using. I picked up one of these at a thrift store in the mid-nineties. I never had documentation for it, so I didn't get far with it, but I did play around with it a bit. The keys just felt... well, as if you were not pressing anything at all. They had a BIT of give, but not much. I suppose that you could get used to it, but just like I suppose you could get used to ANY keyboard if you had to.
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?cU3&st=1
Well, that's not another TEN "worst" keyboards, but it's SOMETHING. Anyone else care to add a few to the list of seven? Bill, I'm sure you must have some weird ones to add from your cast collection!
Adam
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
7. RE: [ts2068] Re: TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
Bill Loguidice · Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:19
That's about right, Adam. The Interact keyboard is actually hard plastic
keys with nominal give, much worse than rubber chiclet keys, plus it had no
printing on the keycaps. I don't mind the Mattel ECS keyboard as much,
though I have not tried any heavy programming on it. Like I said, I would
have almost wanted to group ANY computer with rubber chiclet keys into one
entry on that top 10 list, since it's too easy to pick on chiclet keyboards.
Maybe have one group that bothered with printing on the keycaps and another
group (dropped a notch lower on the list) without. Finally, in regards to
the Panasonic JR-200U, I'm actually covering it quite a bit on Armchair
Arcade right now. The keyboard seems pretty decent to me for what it is.
Again, I have not spent any time lately doing any heavy work on chiclet
keyboards, so I'm sure my mood would change dramatically if I were actually
subjected to it for something I was trying to get done. ;-)
Oh yeah, the Heathkit H8 has a data keypad similar to the Astrocade, but a
bit easier because they're real keyboard keys!
You know, thinking about it, the Timex Sinclair 2068 really isn't all that
bad all things considered. You ALWAYS want a full stroke keyboard that you
can easily touch type on, but for a chiclet keyboard, it's not all that
bad...
================Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
Armchair Arcade, Inc.
http://www.armchairarcade.com
A PC Magazine Top 100 Website
================
-----Original Message-----
From: [email] [mailto:[email]] On Behalf Of
Adam Trionfo
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:35 AM
To: TS 2068 Yahoogroup
Subject: [ts2068] Re: TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
I know that the article is about worst "keyboards," but if we count ANY
computer input entry methods than we have some other fantastic winners.
Here are some more, some keyboards, some not, these are not in any order:
1) Bally Astrocade - A computer that is dear to my heart but with a horrible
scheme for entering BASIC programs using a keypad. The Astrocade has
twenty-four keys, so you use shift in order to simply get all the letters of
the alphabet. It's a pretty early entry into the marketplace (1977), and I
guess that it beats the next entry, the Altair, which didn't even HAVE a
keypad, let alone a keyboard. For examples of overlays for the Bally
Astrocade, check this out:
http://www.ballyalley.com/pics/keypad_overlays/keypad_overlays.html
2) MITS Altair - No keyboard, no keypad, nothing like that. Setting toggle
switches allowed you to input one BYTE at a time. Ouch, that must have
HURT. The best part is, YOU had to keep track of where you were in memory
when entering the program. But ya gotta give 'em credit... they WERE first
to market with a "micro" computer. Check out the Altair's entry method
here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Altair_Computer_Front_Panel.jpg
3) Atari 2600 "BASIC Programming" / Atari 7800 "Monitor Cartridge" - Both of
these consoles used two "keyboard" controllers put together to make a method
for entering data. Two keyboard controllers gave you twenty-four keys in
all. It's lack of keys isn't so bad for two reasons: 1) On the VCS you only
had about sixty bytes (or "symbols") to use before you ran out of memory--
you certainly were not going to be typing a letter to Grandma; 2) On the
Monitor Cartridge you were programming in machine language, so you could
only enter in numbers and commands.
You can check out the "BASIC Programming" Overlay here:
http://www.atariage.com/overlay_page.html?SoftwareLabelID
You can check out the "Monitor Cartridge" overlay here:
http://www.atari7800.org/manuals/overlay.jpg
4) Intellivision Entertainment Computer System (ECS): I have to admit that
I've never actually USED this "computer." However, if it's entry method is
as bad as it looks... then... well, you decide:
http://www.corestack.com/machines/ecs.html
5) VideoBrain: I've never used it, but Bill votes for it, so here's a
picture of the thirty-key keyboard of the VideoBrain:
http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/vidbrain/
6) Interact Home Computer System: This is another computer that I've never
used but that Bill votes for. The computer's keyboard doesn't look so bad.
I guess the keys are rubber? At least you get a keyboard and not a keypad
or two different controllers put together. Here's a picture:
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c04
7) Panasonic JR-200U - All right, now here is a computer that I DO have
experience using. I picked up one of these at a thrift store in the
mid-nineties. I never had documentation for it, so I didn't get far with
it, but I did play around with it a bit. The keys just felt... well, as if
you were not pressing anything at all. They had a BIT of give, but not
much. I suppose that you could get used to it, but just like I suppose you
could get used to ANY keyboard if you had to.
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?cU3&st=1
Well, that's not another TEN "worst" keyboards, but it's SOMETHING. Anyone
else care to add a few to the list of seven? Bill, I'm sure you must have
some weird ones to add from your cast collection!
Adam
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows VistaR + Windows LiveT.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_
MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
Yahoo! Groups Links
8. RE: TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
Adam Trionfo · Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:36
>>
The Interact keyboard is actually hard plastic keys with nominal give, much worse than rubber chiclet keys, plus it had no printing on the keycaps.
>>
Wow, that's two strikes in one!
>>
I would have almost wanted to group ANY computer with rubber chiclet keys into one
entry on that top 10 list, since it's too easy to pick on chiclet keyboards.
>>
Agreed, though that would have been kind of cheating. Still, they all do have the same problems.
Here's a question for you 2068 users-- can any of you touch-type with it? Did some of you use the computer "back in the day" for word processing? When I belonged to an Atari user group back in the early ninties I heard that there used to be this guy who had an Atari 400 who could type 35 words a minute. That's quite a feat-- and that was just a membrane keyboard.
>>
in regards to the Panasonic JR-200U, I'm actually covering it quite a bit on Armchair
Arcade right now. The keyboard seems pretty decent to me for what it is.
>>
Yea, I guess it isn't any worse REALLY than any other chicklet keyboard, but the computer wasn't cheap when it came out. Old-Computers.com says that the suggested retail was $349.95. Commodore had managed to give the Vic-20 real keys...
I noticed your quite-long article about the JR-200. I'll try to read it next week after this semester is over... or sooner if I need a distraction.
Your book, "Videogame and Computer Entertainment Systems: The First 15 Years," is on my Amazon wish list, but it now says, "This item is no longer available." Do you know anything about that? Will it still be coming out in, I think, 2008?
Speaking of books, has anyone read "Classic Home Video Games, 1972-1984: A Complete Reference Guide"
by Brett Weiss? I've been thinking about picking it up, but it's $55-- quite steep for a book I've never flipped my fingers through. Can anyone here recommend it?
>>
Oh yeah, the Heathkit H8 has a data keypad similar to the Astrocade, but a
bit easier because they're real keyboard keys!
>>
Yea, those keys WOULD be very welcomed on an Astrocade. Then again, a keyboard chiclet keyboard would have been even more welcome. Did chiclet keyboards exist in 1977? I suppose, in a way, the Astrocade's keypad already IS a chiclet keypad. Sorta. You have to press the keys rather hard when you type. After a while the tips of your fingers really get sore. Last May I typed in several programs for the Astrocade from the Arcadian newsletter. I really thought I might build up a nice callus (no kidding). At first I was only using my index finger. I had to switch off between my index finger and my middle finger (and use both hands) in order to stay comfortable. Anything stories like this about the 2068?
Adam
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9. RE: [ts2068] RE: TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
Bill Loguidice · Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:55
Here's a question for you 2068 users-- can any of you touch-type with it?
Did some of you use the computer "back in the day" for word processing? When
I belonged to an Atari user group back in the early ninties I heard that
there used to be this guy who had an Atari 400 who could type 35 words a
minute. That's quite a feat-- and that was just a membrane keyboard.
I bet there are people who can. I find I'm sloppy trying to do that. I was
actually quite impressed with how well I could type on the Odyssey2's smooth
sheet of plastic that passes for a keyboard. It's a shame there's no way to
save from the US version of BASIC on the Odyssey2 as if you ask me they
found something cheap that's superior in many way to chiclet keyboard.
>>
Your book, "Videogame and Computer Entertainment Systems: The First 15
Years," is on my Amazon wish list, but it now says, "This item is no longer
available." Do you know anything about that? Will it still be coming out in,
I think, 2008?
We had a falling out with the publisher (long story), so it will be
published (hopefully) by someone else (the new proposal will be ready soon).
Excerpts are running now over at Gamasutra. The first article from last
month was on the C-64 and the next article, which they should throw up soon
is on the Vectrex. Of course all the Timex systems are in the book.
Speaking of books, has anyone read "Classic Home Video Games, 1972-1984: A
Complete Reference Guide"
by Brett Weiss? I've been thinking about picking it up, but it's $55-- quite
steep for a book I've never flipped my fingers through. Can anyone here
recommend it?
I've spoken briefly with the author on the AtariAge forums. I don't plan on
reading any other books like (it's pure videogame systems and only a
handful) that until mine gets officially published for obvious reasons.
Apparently it's a full color book and either self-published or through a
small publisher, hence the high price. A full color book with lots of pages
is very expensive to produce. I know with this last publisher for my book,
the book could only be between 250 - 300 pages, with its printing outsourced
to overseas, to get a full color, glossy production at a $25 or so retail
price (and it's not a small publisher either). Since it was going to be in
the 350 page range and I couldn't get the photo quality quite high enough,
it was turned into a black and white (grayscale) book.
Adam
__________________________________________________________
Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate. Join in.
www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline
=================================
Bill Loguidice, Managing Director
Armchair Arcade, Inc.
(A PC Magazine Top 100 Website)
http://www.armchairarcade.com
=================================
10. Re: TS2068 rated 9th worst keyboard ever...
James the Animal Tamer · Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:38
Yes, the Interact keyboard is pretty horrible.
I'd actually move the 2068 up in awfulness, because you can't type the
BASIC keywords. Instead, you're locked into the worst hunt-n-peck
jungle, pressing space cadet shifters, to suss out your keyword.
Awful. I know some of you guys are married to it, but those of us who
started with Microsoft BASIC based computers found the keyword hunt to
be, well, appalling.
--- In [email], "Bill Loguidice" <bill@...> wrote:
> Here's a question for you 2068 users-- can any of you touch-type with
it?